Why Capitalists are Capitalists...

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

That's why che hates it . However, I think the real reason was a compromise between left and right, and because the left was growing and wanted reforms (without revolution).

It doesn't work anyway. All that happened in the end was that the capitalists moved their factories offshore where they wouldn't be bothered by pesky things like human rights and unions. For the last 20 years they've been trying to persuade us to work part-time at McDonalds.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Agathon
How long do people think that the environment and the world's dispossessed are going to put up with the current system of consumer capitalism? It's a totally nutty system - much of our economy is based on producing trivial things which nobody really needs and trashy crap which breaks after a couple of years so you have to buy a new one.

There were consumer goods in America before MultiNationalCorporations started exploiting cheaper foreign labor.

If you ever watch the "Antiques Roadshow" you can see what is wrong with consumer capitalism. Most of that old stuff is well made and that's why it has lasted so well - there's no reason that couldn't be done now other than that it would destroy our silly economy. Same goes for fashions and trends - it's all smoke and mirrors - the wonder is that anyone falls for it.

Some people like new things, especially shiny objects.

I mean look at the pop charts as an example of mass stupidity. These measure sales rather than what people are actually listening to, so of course they are subject to rapid change. However, much of the public has managed to be persuaded that sales = popularity, so you get this continual urge to buy the latest thing.

Sure it's stupidm but you don't have any right to tell people what they can and can't enjoy.

Consumer capitalism is irrational, silly and destructive of the environment and other people. We could feed everyone in the world right now, but we don't because our system of distribution is so stupid that fat Americans are falling over from heart attacks whilst Africans starve by the thousands.

It might be silly, but as Americans, we can do what we want with our money and labor. Where is it written that Americans have to slave to feed an African population that expanded beyond its capabilities. Sure, we should help out, but it's not our fault they aren't independent. Why should America use it's resources just to feed a world. We're not the mother nipple of the world. We should help impoverished nations to become self-sufficient. We shouldn't, however, be forced to support them.

When you evaluate a system, evaluate it on the global scale.

I agree. If some regional areas have outgrown their capacity to feed their populations, we shouldn't support the overgrowth. Sure, starvation sucks, but maybe if Africa didn't have such enormous birth-rates, this wouldn't be a problem. I don't see why we should punish Americans for their mistakes.

[Imran Siddiqui]

It doesn't work anyway. All that happened in the end was that the capitalists moved their factories offshore where they wouldn't be bothered by pesky things like human rights and unions. For the last 20 years they've been trying to persuade us to work part-time at McDonalds.

Wow... I didn't know Europe and the US are in poverty because corporations have all moved away.

[Sava]

It doesn't work anyway. All that happened in the end was that the capitalists moved their factories offshore where they wouldn't be bothered by pesky things like human rights and unions. For the last 20 years they've been trying to persuade us to work part-time at McDonalds.

It's our fault that other countries don't have human rights and labor laws?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

It doesn't work anyway. All that happened in the end was that the capitalists moved their factories offshore where they wouldn't be bothered by pesky things like human rights and unions. For the last 20 years they've been trying to persuade us to work part-time at McDonalds.

Wow... I didn't know Europe and the US are in poverty because corporations have all moved away.

Get your head out of the sand

[Sava]

There is significant poverty in the US, but not because corporations are moving away.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Sava
There is significant poverty in the US, but not because corporations are moving away.

The trade deficit and automation combined are causing joblessness and poverty. Joblessness is the leading cause of poverty. So do you have a better theory about how jobs are lost?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Get your head out of the sand

This makes you seems fairly ignorant. Almost Fez or Sava-esque.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
This makes you seems fairly ignorant. Almost Fez or Sava-esque.

All you do is spam like that DD. I find it interesting that you complain when others do it.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Sava
There were consumer goods in America before MultiNationalCorporations started exploiting cheaper foreign labor.

That's a non-sequitur.

Some people like new things, especially shiny objects.

So what, it doesn't mean they get to have them.

Sure it's stupidm but you don't have any right to tell people what they can and can't enjoy.

The state does this all the time when their enjoyment of it significantly disadvantages others. e.g. kiddie porn.

It might be silly, but as Americans, we can do what we want with our money and labor. Where is it written that Americans have to slave to feed an African population that expanded beyond its capabilities.

This is the usual lie brought out to explain why these people are poor. It's all their fault. BS Sava, we use 80% of the world's resources - you aren't going to tell me that 80% of the world's resources are contained within the borders of industrialised nations are you?

Sure, we should help out, but it's not our fault they aren't independent. Why should America use it's resources just to feed a world.

It's resources? Their ****ing resources!

We're not the mother nipple of the world.

No just the teenage rapist.

We should help impoverished nations to become self-sufficient. We shouldn't, however, be forced to support them.

Leaving them be and not interfering might be a start. But such things are verboten.

I agree. If some regional areas have outgrown their capacity to feed their populations, we shouldn't support the overgrowth.

They haven't. The whole world could be fed very easily. You aren't telling me that you should starve just because you can't grow all the food you need in your window box.

Sure, starvation sucks, but maybe if Africa didn't have such enormous birth-rates, this wouldn't be a problem. I don't see why we should punish Americans for their mistakes.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BIRTH RATES!!!!!! We could feed all these people and more - it's the distribution system that's ****ed.

[Imran Siddiqui]

There is significant poverty in the US, but not because corporations are moving away.

Yeah, but compared to third world countries? Come on! Europe's and the US's GDP per capita and mean income are so high compared to those countries to claim that capitalists moved all their industries away because of better protectons and thus Europeans and Americans have to settle for McDonald's jobs is just utterly silly.

Work requiring skilled labor goes to where productivity is highest, not where wages are lowest.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Kidicious
All you do is spam like that DD. I find it interesting that you complain when others do it.

I only give nonsensical rhetoric the attention it deserves.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Work requiring skilled labor goes to where productivity is highest, not where wages are lowest.

Labor mobility is not a significant factor.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Who the Hell said anything about labor mobility? Industries go to countries and areas for skilled labor where productivity of the people is high. You won't see many software companies in Uganda, for example.... put plenty will exist in the US and Europe.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Yeah, but compared to third world countries? Come on! Europe's and the US's GDP per capita and mean income are so high compared to those countries to claim that capitalists moved all their industries away because of better protectons and thus Europeans and Americans have to settle for McDonald's jobs is just utterly silly.

Work requiring skilled labor goes to where productivity is highest, not where wages are lowest.

So that's why loads of the people I know have been relocated to Mexico, where labour is really cheap so that they can become foreign bwanas to the cheaper Mexican labourers.

That's why, when I walk through Toronto's garment district almost all the factories are closed. Silly me...