Why Capitalists are Capitalists...

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
that's why there's public education, small business loans, college loans, etc...

Didn't we go through this before? The gap between the rich and poor in the US has widened significantly in the last 20 years or so.

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Excuse me? when did Jefferson and Adams and all them try to escape religious persecution? The US was founded in 1776...

No, but a significant portion of the original colonies were people seeking religious freedom.

Even if we agree to your rules in this particular case, however, the US wasn't founded by people who didn't like taxation. They were founded by people who didn't like taxation without representation.

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Plenty of successes... the few remaining ones that don't seem successful (Taiwan I guess) just need some more time. Looking at America in 1900, one could easily say that capitalism had only resulted in suffering for people but now in 2003, the standard of living has increased greatly.

Not really. Outside of Western Europe, Scandinavia, and North America, the only successes are the Four Asian Tigers (RoK, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong), none of which became successful because of capitalism alone. Okay, there also the Aussies and the Kiwis, but that's pretty much it.

Originally posted by Albert Speer
And **** lasseiz-faire capitalism... it only results in monopolies which is hardly capitalistic...

Why monopolies aren't capitalistic? In fact, laissez-faire is the purist form of capitalism. If you look at public educations and things like that, those are socialistic influences.

Originally posted by Albert Speer
As is always said, communism fails because people are greedy... thus, communism requires a change in the nature of people to not be greedy. Capitalism makes do with this flaw and is viable despite imperfect men.

None of the OB (organisation behaviour) theory I know of stipulates human beings to be greedy. In fact, most of them denies people to be purely "economic man."

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Again... time is a factor. give capitalism a generation or two

Lots and lots of South America, African, and Asian countries have been at it for quite some time.

Originally posted by Albert Speer
perhaps but high taxes, difficult regulations for businesses to fulfill, etc. did not entice industries to stay in the cities.

It's not that simple. A lot of "difficult" regulations are not as much as anti-business as they are for other concerns such as workplace conditions, health, environmental factors, and so forth.

If you look at steel production, the reason why the US lost out to Japan (and RoK) is because the US steel industry failed to adopt better technology. Instead, they relied on government protection. Automobiles are another prime example.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Dissident
you're all hypocrites.

all of you socialists would love to be millionaires.

How does that follow?

It is entirely conceivable that a society has such massive production that every member of it is a millionare.

[Urban Ranger]

Re: Re: Re: Why Capitalists are Capitalists...

Originally posted by DinoDoc
BS. I can't believe that they even teach that in other countries.

Okay, then where did your "Puritan work ethic" come from?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Okay, then where did your "Puritan work ethic" come from?

What does that have to do with the validity of your statement?

[Bereta_Eder]

Look at moneypenny and ask yourself. If he was not a capitalist. What on earth other could he possibly be?

[Sava]

I believe in the capitalist system because it is the best way to run an economy. The problem is, the US doesn't allow the business cycle to run its course. It supports failing industries with protectionist policies, and it doesn't sufficiently prosecute abuses.

I find it funny that people call me "leftist, commie", etc; because the policy changes I believe in are more free-market than what we currently have. Capitalism is a very good model when applied in the right places. Health care, public safety, defense, and infrastructure/energy are areas that Capitalism should not be the model. Private entities, however, should be given the opprotunity to compete with public/government enterprises, but should not be the only alternative. Consumer goods should be entirely free-market. I would go so far as to say business should not be taxed at all. I have some very unorthodox ideas about how the government should collect revenue, etc, but am too lazy to explain here.

[Velociryx]

Ohhh, here we go again! Seems like this is the one debate that never gets old....and of course, we gotta hear from the Communists about the evils of capitalism (while they trot out the worn-thin defense of their own system..."but, but....you can't look at Russia if you want to study Communism....Stalin corrupted the system!....you can't look at China if you want to study Communism....Mao corrupted the system!" Same excuse for every failed example of Communism, but there's no trend there, of course....

Capitalism works. Demonstrably. Why? At least in part because of human greed. Capitalism makes no pretense that human beings are perfect.

Communism fails. Demonstrably. Why? At least in part because of human greed. Communism *requires* humans to be more than we are in order to function.

-=Vel=-

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Capitalism works. Demonstrably. Why? At least in part because of human greed. Capitalism makes no pretense that human beings are perfect.

capitialism often makes the pretense that humans are fallable, and are willing to be trampled for the good of few.

[Velociryx]

Not buying into it, Uber. True, capitalism takes advantage of human greed by its structure, but nowhere in it will you find a diabolic plot, the end result of which is that a few elites prosper, while everyone else starves. Nor is that borne out in the success stories capitalism has had.

And what of the other side of the coin? Where are the Communist success stories? There are none. Lots of excuses about why there aren't, but successes? None to be found.

After so many attempts, you've gotta wonder why that might be.

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Ohhh, here we go again! Seems like this is the one debate that never gets old....and of course, we gotta hear from the Communists about the evils of capitalism (while they trot out the worn-thin defense of their own system..."but, but....you can't look at Russia if you want to study Communism....Stalin corrupted the system!....you can't look at China if you want to study Communism....Mao corrupted the system!" Same excuse for every failed example of Communism, but there's no trend there, of course....

I think Stalin and Mao were both successfull. They both used communism to do what they wanted to do. Stalin created huge economies of scale, and mao decentralized his economy to defend against military attack.

Originally posted by Velociryx
Capitalism works. Demonstrably. Why? At least in part because of human greed. Capitalism makes no pretense that human beings are perfect.

Communism fails. Demonstrably. Why? At least in part because of human greed. Communism *requires* humans to be more than we are in order to function.

-=Vel=-

Greed is what created capitalism, but it is also what will make it fail. You notice that the rich keep getting richer while the poor just keep hanging on? Sooner or later that's going to break again. And the next time will be the last. The rich never want to let go of their greedy blood money to save their own economy.

[Velociryx]

No...actually I notice the poor keep getting richer, too. I'm one of them, remember?

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
No...actually I notice the poor keep getting richer, too. I'm one of them, remember?

-=Vel=-

You've got your head in the sand on a lot of things Vel.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Communism fails. Demonstrably. Why? At least in part because of human greed.

You don't even have to go that far. A simple look at a history book would be enough. However, some people's faith springs eternal.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You don't even have to go that far. A simple look at a history book would be enough. However, some people's faith springs eternal.

You took what your history teacher taught you and put the matter to rest. Look at the world since them. Sh1ts going down. This century is the last for capitalism. I don't even think it will last that long.

[Sava]

I don't think greed created Capitalism. Capitalism is freedom. If you want greed, look at the European monarchies before Capitalism. In fact, the free-market system came about as a result of freedom and democracy.