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Peace process over: Bush folds like expected

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  • #31
    Originally posted by laurentius


    So, do the pals have _every_ right to defend theirselves against oppression and occupation in other words against terror from the illegal settlers and IDF?
    Explain to me how sending suicide bombers up to blow buses full of civilians helps the defense of the Palestinians. A most unique strategy of defense. Perhaps they're trying to confuse the enemy?
    "I read a book twice as fast as anybody else. First, I read the beginning, and then I read the ending, and then I start in the middle and read toward whatever end I like best." - Gracie Allen

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    • #32
      There are other means you know, like sniper attacks on IDF solders. I dont approve the attack on civilians but IDF is killing them too.
      Explain to me why israel doesnt want to solve this problem, but is constantly keeping with their apartheid traditions. Who would have guessed that people who survived Hitlers terror would start their own lebensraum in just a few decades
      Last edited by laurentius; June 13, 2003, 14:22.
      Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.

      - Paul Valery

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      • #33
        Originally posted by laurentius Explain to me why israel doesnt want to solve this prob
        It does. That is why, despite the risks inherent, a wide majority (70%) continue to want to go back to the negotiating table and discuss a two state solution with an exchange of the territories and setting up a Palestinian state living side by side with Israel in exchange for that state putting an end to the terrorism.

        In contrast, 80% of the Palestinians say that a state of Palestine cannot coexist with Israel.
        "I read a book twice as fast as anybody else. First, I read the beginning, and then I read the ending, and then I start in the middle and read toward whatever end I like best." - Gracie Allen

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        • #34
          Yeah, and you know what? The israelies have all chances for hihg education- pals dont. I dont find those results so surprising. Hamas is generally the only social-security many pals have, especially those living in concentr--erh refugee camps. Hamas provides them with islamic/propaganda-education and this is the result. How would you feel if you'd have to leave your home and virtually had no chances in life?
          Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.

          - Paul Valery

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          • #35
            It's ongoing feuds like this one that make me want to pull a line from "Aliens." We should just take off, and nuke the site from orbit. Light the candle big time, you know? You guys (both sides) obviously care more about keeping the score even than getting serious about peace, so why not? Let's expand the conflict to a global level and leave it to the cockroaches, eh?

            -=Vel=-
            The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

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            • #36
              Obviously, the Arabs have to crack down on terrorist groups themselves if they ever want Israel to stop. Negotiations between the PA and Hamas will not work if the PA are ultimately unwilling to use force if the negotiations fail. The excuse that the PA is tootless does not wash with Egyptian muscle just across the border that can move in to help if asked.

              Correct me if I am wrong, but the Israeli attacks began after Abbas said he would not use force against Hamas?

              Bush's weakness on these terrorist groups and what the PA must do to stop terror is part of the problem. Powell yesterday said more of the same "Abbas must do more to stop terrorism" crap we have been hearing from Bush's administration from its first days. The wording needs to be a lot stronger - more like the wording Bush used in connection with the Taliban two years ago.

              Hamas need an ultimatum from Abbas.
              http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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              • #37
                Abbas needs to start showing an iron fist because this terrorism has to stop and it has to stop now. The world is just sick of this **** including Europe. Israel will have to make concessions and so will the Palestinians.

                Bush needs to tell Powell to beef up his words saying "Mr. Abbas if you don't crack down on terrorism this cannot go foward. There isn't any room here for failure. Go after the terrorist groups now!"
                For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                • #38
                  Look,abbas is not controlling the hamas and al-aqsa factions. So my suggestion is that isreal should try to negotiate with them instead of Abbas. Their demands may not be so unreasonable you know.
                  Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.

                  - Paul Valery

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                  • #39
                    Laurentius, if you consider wiping Israel off the face of the earth not unreasonable.. you have judgement problems.
                    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                    • #40
                      What I understod was that hamas rejected Abbas's truce with israel because Abbas dint mention Jerusalem as palestinian capital + other reasons. I dont suppose it's unreasonable to want your share of the city thats sacred to both of them. Also, pals have literally lost everything, their homeland, future, and dignity. I think they have every right to hate american backed facist israel.
                      Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.

                      - Paul Valery

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Laurentius: You aren't understanding what I am saying. Hamas and the Al Aqsa militia both want Israel destroyed completely.

                        And you call Israel fascist? Give me a ****ing break.. the Palestinian militias are nothing but terrorists who deserve to be tried for the crimes in a court of law.

                        The Palestinians had several times to accept state hood and why didn't they?
                        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                        • #42
                          Why not? Now I'm no expert but i can think of 3 reasons. Netanyahu, late 90-ties, Sharon, mass-murderer- provicateur of the current intifada. Also no doubt Arafat is to blame too for many things.
                          Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.

                          - Paul Valery

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Fez
                            The Palestinians had several times to accept state hood and why didn't they?
                            Several? They had one: 1948, and the fact is Fez that if you had been a palestinains then, you of all people would have been out getting a gun to kill israelis.

                            And I don;t consider 2000 a serious chance for Palestinain statehood, but a serious chance to have continued the Oslo process.

                            Edan: If I remember correctly, this violce begun in spet 2000, not March 2002. If you cna tell me that since sept 2000 the majority of suicide attacks against Israel were carried out by Fatah, go ahead (I don;t think you can), and Israel begun bombing PLA installation in 2000,. They finally invaded in 2002, but they were using F-16's and Apaches to atatck PLA facitlieis since under Barak.


                            In contrast, 80% of the Palestinians say that a state of Palestine cannot coexist with Israel.


                            Maybe is Pals had ever seen the benefits of a two state solution, they might want ti. As of yet, they have seen very little (they had an small eopcnomic boom in the early 90's, then stagnated, and the settlements and closing continues unabbaeted during that whole time.
                            If you don't like reality, change it! me
                            "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                            "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                            "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by laurentius
                              Why not? Now I'm no expert but i can think of 3 reasons. Netanyahu, late 90-ties, Sharon, mass-murderer- provicateur of the current intifada. Also no doubt Arafat is to blame too for many things.
                              I have always said that both sides are equally at fault for the current mess.
                              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                              • #45
                                Must you italicize the post? Italics are hard to read and should only be used for emphasis.
                                Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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