We, the sensible people of the United States,...

[The Templar]

Re: We, the sensible people of the United States,...

Ah, another conservative whining about the loss of his white male privilege. Boo Hoo.

Originally posted by SlowwHand
ARTICLE IV:
You do not have the right to free food and housing. Americans are
the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone
in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation
after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing
more than the creation of another generation of professional couch
potatoes.

Great, so you'll let people starve in the streets? How about people who lose their jobs in the economic downturn and run out of savings and end up homeless? A few more politicians in office with your opinion and we'll be communist in no time!

ARTICLE V:
You do not have the right to free health care. That would be nice,
but from the looks of public housing, we should be wary of public
health care or public anything.

Why not free health care? Don't doctors take an oath?

ARTICLE VIII:
You don't have the right to a job. All of us sure want you to have a
job, and will gladly help you along in hard times, but we expect you
to take advantage of the opportunities of part time jobs, education
and vocational training laid before you to make yourself useful.

So what your saying is that there is no free ride - everybody has to work, but only if work is not available too bad - just starve.

ARTICLE X:
This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you are
from. We welcome you here. English is our language and like the one
you left behind, we also have a culture. Learn it or go back to the
country and the living conditions you were fleeing."

This one is the most funny. Someday, latin descent people will outnumber english-speaking descent people in this country. I guess when they rule and tell you to learn Spanish or get out you will have no right to complain.

Sloww, go back to your little shack in the woods and type your manifestos on a typewriter.

[DinoDoc]

Someday, latin descent people will outnumber english-speaking descent people in this country.

Racist.

[ajbera]

For those who disagree with Article X: What's the alternative, then? Should all Americans be forced to learn a dozen other languages so that they will be able to understand any given non-English speaking immigrant in any given situation? Should I have to learn a handful of languages I may never ever have to use or understand?

Don't get me wrong - I heartily endorse lifelong education, including the learning of multiple languages, but for self-improvement reasons, not so as to make life easier for immigrants. And I believe resources should be available to teach immigrants our Mother Tongue, but those resources should exhaust volunteers before even thinking about State funding. But it's perfectly reasonable to expect a person to learn the language of a country where they expect to live and work. If I were Chinese, I would definitely learn German if I was moving to Germany; it would be wrong of me to expect Germans to know Chinese to make things easier for me. The Germans would be doing me a favor by letting me live and work there, and I'm sure they could get by without me just fine.

As for capital punishment, I definitely think it needs revision. It does seem racist, and I personally am against the execution of children and the mentally ill or disabled. Furthermore, I would not apply it to crimes of passion (killing your wife in a drunken rage) or accidents. But, I do definitely think there are some persons who know exactly what they are doing and commit murder and torture deliberately and with full intent. There are killers who are escape risks who can (and have) escaped to kill again. Hell, there are killers who have been paroled to kill again. There are just some people out there who, for want of a better or more technical term, are just evil pieces of shit who will never do anything productive or beneficial to the world, and who will hurt and manipulate anyone under any circumstance. They are few, and they are far between, but if they commit cold-blooded murder and there is every reason to believe they would do so again if given the opportunity, they should be put into a situation where they can never hurt anyone again, and the only situation where this can be guaranteed is if they are dead.

But in many ways, this is irrelevant, as the actual article reads:
ARTICLE VI:
You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us want to see you fry in the electric chair (yes, capital punishment).

Read it again, and tell me you disagree with it. It doesn't say you don't have the right for us not to kill you, just that you don't have the right to physically harm another person.

And, personally, I don't think this applies for self-defense. If you're coming at me with a knife, you're effectively declaring your intent, and I will respond with lethal force if I feel it's necessary to save my life.

[Q Classic]

actually, people decended from non-english speaking people already outnumber those decended from english-speaking people.

someday, yes. and perhaps at that time, we might reconsider. but as it stands, since every other foreign national who chooses to reside in the united states is virtually forced to learn english to survive and function, it smacks to me of blatant favoritism towards one ethnic group to coddle their refusal or inability to learn english to function in this american society.

if it's inability, there are churches. many of them provide basic english classes.

if it's refusal, then they really shouldn't complain if some public and government documents are not written in their native language. money spent translating that red tape could go elsewhere--such as acutally making those damned services work.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
actually, people decended from non-english speaking people already outnumber those decended from english-speaking people.

Personally, I'm highly interested in Templar's theory on what if anything descent has to do with language ability.

[Kingof the Apes]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I don't want to be obligated to work. That means I'm not going to do it.

And you don't have too. But think, what if half the population thought that? Everything would grind to a halt, with those people demanding welfare payments. It is fundamentally wrong for people who have no physical or mental impairments to get a free ride on welfare, just because they don't feel like working.

It is your right to decide whether you want to work or not, but you have to accept the consequences.

[alva]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
I don't know why anyone finds "X" disturbing.

If I go to live in France, which I wouldn't, I would expect I'd need to learn French.
Maybe not, since English is the most commonly used language in the world; in which case, why the HELL would anyone find "X" disturbing?

Just a wild guess here, but never actually have been to France, have you?

Your approach will work in most of europe, alas, not in France. (probably not in Italy, Spain or the south of Belgium either though )

[Imran Siddiqui]

I find it immensely funny that all these people on the left find these things to be absolutes. Such as you don't have a right to free food meaning that you have to starve if you are poor. I don't see a provision saying you don't have a right to welfare checks. Just because the federal government doesn't come up to your door and drop off milk doesn't mean that it'll just say you are on your own when you lose your job. Welfare will be given, but what you want to do with it is your business.



This thread just proves to me that the left sees the world in black and white instead of shades of grey.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by alva
Your approach will work in most of europe, alas, not in France. (probably not in Italy, Spain or the south of Belgium either though )

Will they at least be more helpful if I make an attempt to speak thier language?

[alva]

If you avoid Paris, hmmm, they might

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kingof the Apes
And you don't have too. But think, what if half the population thought that? Everything would grind to a halt, with those people demanding welfare payments. It is fundamentally wrong for people who have no physical or mental impairments to get a free ride on welfare, just because they don't feel like working.

It is your right to decide whether you want to work or not, but you have to accept the consequences.

Exactly, I can't pay the consequences so I have to work, unlike some people.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I find it immensely funny that all these people on the left find these things to be absolutes.

Glad you were not referring to me, since I'm a moderate liberal, and do not see such humurous jabs as absolutes.

You're right -- it's using a fallicious argument by using such absolutes.

[Cyclotron]

Re: Re: We, the sensible people of the United States,...

I'm cool with pretty much everything here except the death penalty (which, IMO, is immoral), and prohibiting some free services, since government doesn't have to be bad neccessarily. Pretty good generally, though.

Originally posted by The Templar
Why not free health care? Don't doctors take an oath?

An oath to practice free health care? I think not.

So what your saying is that there is no free ride - everybody has to work, but only if work is not available too bad - just starve.

Work is always available. It's just that some people don't want to do work they consider "beneath them."

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Will they at least be more helpful if I make an attempt to speak thier language?

A Frenchman has 99% chances of being delighted if he sees an American trying to speak French, no matter how clumsy the American is (as a matter of fact, the clumsier is the cuter ), even a Parisian.

But don't expect any bureaucrat to soften a bit

[Berzerker]

Templar -

Ah, another conservative whining about the loss of his white male privilege. Boo Hoo.

I saw no mention of skin color, gender, or ideology in that list of non-rights.

Great, so you'll let people starve in the streets? How about people who lose their jobs in the economic downturn and run out of savings and end up homeless? A few more politicians in office with your opinion and we'll be communist in no time!

I saw no prohibition of charitable acts in that list either. How many homeless people have you invited to live in your home?

Why not free health care? Don't doctors take an oath?

I didn't know doctors took an oath to give you health care at no cost.

So what your saying is that there is no free ride - everybody has to work, but only if work is not available too bad - just starve.

Or do what most people do, ask family and friends for help.

This one is the most funny. Someday, latin descent people will outnumber english-speaking descent people in this country. I guess when they rule and tell you to learn Spanish or get out you will have no right to complain.

Looks like the author was making a suggestion, not a demand backed up by government force.