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america, the gulag

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  • #46
    actually, i've been talking with people here in korea during my trip.

    a lot of this apparent anti-american sentiment is directed less at america and more at bush... which explains why it didn't bubble over until bush came to power.

    there was some demonstration in memory of those two girls, but opinion on that seemed to be mixed at large. seems as if only the people who cared went to that demonstration, while everyone else was ready to move on...
    B♭3

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Vince278
      I've been to many other countries around the world and I honestly believe the US is the best country in the world.
      Nonsense. Even Canada is better.
      (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
      (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
      (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

      Comment

      • #48
        Originally posted by HershOstropoler
        "How about the amount of influence the US has (for better or worse)?"

        Which is, as far as western europe is concerned, mostly an issue for people who spent to much time in the french écoles.
        I don't understand ecoles.
        As for Europe, I believe if the EU could work together more and had the will to take on difficult external issues they would be an awesome force to behold.

        Originally posted by HershOstropoler
        I'd rather envy the influence say Israel has on the US, rather than the other way round.
        I have friends living over there so I'm sure the Israelis would agree that we each have little influence over the other. If anything, we are becoming a thorn in their side. I don't see America having a pro-Israeli bias (if anything, we have a pro-liberty bias). We fought against "fellow" Christians to help Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo (no so called oil interests there!). We are now trying to help the Palestinians despite opposition from both Arabs and Israelis.

        Originally posted by HershOstropoler
        "Bush is not America, he is only the current president."

        Bush is part of a larger problem.
        And what is the larger problem?
        I believe America is trying to make our world a safer place for us all. Bush just acts a little more decisively in that regard. History will judge how well he does. (Now if we could only keep him away from pretzels and Segways )
        "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
        "Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
        2004 Presidential Candidate
        2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)

        Comment

        • #49
          Originally posted by Q Cubed
          actually, i've been talking with people here in korea during my trip.
          I lived in South Korea for a year in 1993. My day in Panmunjon was an eye opener.
          "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
          "Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
          2004 Presidential Candidate
          2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)

          Comment

          • #50
            Originally posted by Urban Ranger
            Nonsense. Even Canada is better.
            Okay I'll bite. How so?
            "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
            "Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
            2004 Presidential Candidate
            2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)

            Comment

            • #51
              "I don't understand ecoles."

              The elite universities that shape much of France's political elite.

              "I have friends living over there so I'm sure the Israelis would agree that we each have little influence over the other."

              You just pay a couple billion $ to Israel each year in exchange for a little influence.

              "I don't see America having a pro-Israeli bias"

              Srange. Well, as your gov has a pro-Sharon bias, you could say this amounts to an anti-Israel bias...

              "I believe America is trying to make our world a safer place for us all. Bush just acts a little more decisively in that regard. History will judge how well he does."

              That is part of the larger problem. Self-delusion, chauvinism, militarism, aggressive foreign policy, hypocrisy...

              I also find it hard to believe many Americans trust a guy with their security who is endangered by Pretzels.
              “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

              Comment

              • #52
                Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                "I don't understand ecoles."

                The elite universities that shape much of France's political elite.
                Thank-you. I've just learned a new word (and the reason why the French political elite is so twisted).

                Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                "I have friends living over there so I'm sure the Israelis would agree that we each have little influence over the other."

                You just pay a couple billion $ to Israel each year in exchange for a little influence.
                If that were true I'd say we are definitely not getting our money's worth.

                Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                "I don't see America having a pro-Israeli bias"

                Srange. Well, as your gov has a pro-Sharon bias, you could say this amounts to an anti-Israel bias...
                So then Sharon is anti-Israel?

                Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                "I believe America is trying to make our world a safer place for us all. Bush just acts a little more decisively in that regard. History will judge how well he does."

                That is part of the larger problem. Self-delusion, chauvinism, militarism, aggressive foreign policy, hypocrisy...

                I also find it hard to believe many Americans trust a guy with their security who is endangered by Pretzels.
                Trust him with our security? Maybe. Trust him with our pretzels? Never. The irony there is I live in the town where the first pretzels in America were made (the original factory is still open). Bush passed through on a visit last year.
                "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
                "Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
                2004 Presidential Candidate
                2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)

                Comment

                • #53
                  Originally posted by Vince278
                  The irony there is I live in the town where the first pretzels in America were made (the original factory is still open). Bush passed through on a visit last year.
                  ...and survived?
                  ...nah, you must be joking.
                  Attached Files

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                  • #54
                    Organic pretzels? Yuk!

                    How's the weather there in Siberia?
                    "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
                    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
                    2004 Presidential Candidate
                    2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)

                    Comment

                    • #55
                      "If that were true I'd say we are definitely not getting our money's worth."

                      "Were"? YOu mean you don't give money to Israel, or you have a lot of influence?

                      "So then Sharon is anti-Israel?"

                      He and his ilk don't want a two state solution. So you'll end up either with a fascist apartheid state of Israel, or the destrution of Israel, although both scenarios are a good deal into the future.

                      "Trust him with our pretzels? Never."

                      Sounds reasonable.
                      “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                      Comment

                      • #56
                        We don't have the influence one would think huge sums would buy.


                        I agree if there isn't peace then the future could look grim. Thats why Bush (and previous presidents) are trying so hard. Wish the other major nations would try as hard.
                        The two sides see a two state solution differently. Israel envisions Israel and a Palestinian state. The Palestinians want their own state and Israel.

                        I think we'll start him on potato chips and work up to pretzel sticks and nuggets.
                        "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
                        "Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
                        2004 Presidential Candidate
                        2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)

                        Comment

                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Vince278
                          Organic pretzels? Yuk!

                          How's the weather there in Siberia?
                          It's ok, +26C, not very warm yet.

                          Comment

                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Vince278
                            We don't have the influence one would think huge sums would buy.

                            I agree if there isn't peace then the future could look grim. Thats why Bush (and previous presidents) are trying so hard. Wish the other major nations would try as hard.
                            The big question is, if it´s the right thing they´re doing.
                            If their actions result in Terrorist Organizations getting more members (because Bushs actions are seen as a crusade against the islamic world) the future will look much more grim.
                            The same is the case if the invasion of Iraq will finally lead to the shiites declaring an Islamistic state of Iraq (not at once, but within a few years). The Mullahs seem to have a great influence within the Shiite population.
                            If Bushs action convince many dictatorships within the world, that the only thing which can save them from an attack of the USA ist getting Nuclear Weapons, it also won´t make the world a safer place.

                            Originally posted by Vince278
                            The two sides see a two state solution differently. Israel envisions Israel and a Palestinian state. The Palestinians want their own state and Israel.
                            It all depends on who you are asking I think.
                            If you ask a zionist in Israel they would rather envision an Erez Israel which encompasses the Westbank and much more
                            (and they are busy creating it, by building illegal settlements and encouraging people to live in the Westbank).

                            Originally posted by Vince278
                            I think we'll start him on potato chips and work up to pretzel sticks and nuggets.
                            How many time do you think you´ll need to get him safely through the Potato Chips-Phase?
                            Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                            Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                            Comment

                            • #59
                              Originally posted by The Templar

                              france better wine:
                              Lies. Napa Valley has the finest on Earth.
                              Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

                              Comment

                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Proteus_MST
                                How many time do you think you´ll need to get him safely through the Potato Chips-Phase?
                                I remember hearing he likes salsa (hotter the better). That should make it easier to get those corn chips down.

                                That reminds me of when I was living in Korea. I ordered out some Korean food and they asked me how hot I wanted it. I said "Hot. Very hot. Hot as you can get it and add some more. Try to hurt me, I dare you!" The lesson I learned there? Never dare a Korean to hurt you.
                                "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
                                "Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
                                2004 Presidential Candidate
                                2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)

                                Comment

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