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Is it wrong to think the way I do? (POLITICALLY/ECONOMICALLY)

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  • Is it wrong to think the way I do? (POLITICALLY/ECONOMICALLY)

    if you've listened to my various rants over the years, you most likely think i'm something of a communist, or perhaps a fascist, maybe a jigoistic american imperialist, or just generally a racist inconsiderate bastard. Now, some of that may have been trolling and the like, some of that might have been the real me, but I'd like some honest opinions here.

    I am mainly a Socialist at heart. whatever nominclature you choose to assign to that is your call. I simply believe that social and political equality cannot be achieved without economic equality.

    Now, thats highly debatable, but thats what i believe. so take it as you will. I simply believe that the rich have much more power than the common man in america, and i despise that fact with my very being. i see rich people somehow getting off the hook over and over again, whenever they get into trouble. i see the rich people runing thosands of lives and getting off nearly scott free (enron). politics is simply a rich man's game.

    this has led me to a conclusion, which has gotten me much trouble in my little politically involved group of friends, which is simply that america may be called a democracy (or republic, if you will), people may be able to elect their leaders, but we are far from the "equality" that we appear to praise above all. i simply believe that the american government is a plutocracy, a government by the rich. i have coied the term in my little group, "a generious plutocracy", where the ruling rich upper class gives us whatever liberties and rights we want, so long as we do not infringe on their business too much.

    again, this will be debated and torn to pieces by one side, and built up by another, but again, this is what i believe.

    the problem is, the simpliest "argument"against anything like that, anything that badmouths america, is "if you don't like it, you can go someplace else". the sad thing is, this is the best that we have. even though i sit here and become disgusted by the huge gaps between rich and poor, and complain about how the rich seem to do whatever they want and get off, my life is good. there are no warlords killing millions of people. no major civil wars claimig civilians. i do not fear my government. and that, it appears, is enough for most people, enough for me.

    so, here i am, loathing the system i exist in, but happy that i exist in it. i'm sickened by the very country i love.

    now, that was deep, for me anyway, which leads to a little mroe shallow a problem, defining myself a clear ideology. i've just goe through life professing to be a communist, because it was an attention getter, the word makes people listen. Socialist doesnt have the same kick, but thats another discussion.

    capitialism just seems, to me anyway, to go against everything america professes to stand for. to quote NoFx, "When one makes twenty million, ten thousand others lose".

    i could go on and on, at length, on both why i am a socialist, and why i love america with all of my heart. am i wrong in doing so?
    "I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
    - Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card

  • #2
    capitialism just seems, to me anyway, to go against everything america professes to stand for. to quote NoFx, "When one makes twenty million, ten thousand others lose".
    Such thinking exposes a profound lack of understanding of basic economics. Economics is not a zero sum game instead it ends up being a competetion of seeing who can grow the pie faster.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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    • #3
      Yes, it is wrong. Why, I dunno.. I just wanna be a smartass .
      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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      • #4
        The idea that in order to build wealth someone has to lose wealth is just completely false.
        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well yes, that is false... so is quoting a song to make a point .
          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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          • #6
            Yes, but you cany deny that many make wealth due to the loss, and exploitation of others. It's the damn Fat Cats at the Top!! taking home 6 and even 7 figure salaries!! While others are on the Poverty line!!

            These days companies whole existance depends on capitalising on the fears and weaknesses of other people, i mean take glutein free foods, some people over here who have an allergy to this are already poor but have to pay huge prices just to eat, while the owner of the company making it LIVES in the Savoy Hotel.

            There is a massive lack of Equality, the poor are kept poor on the whole, and the Rich will be more ruthless by the day to keep hold of thier power and wealth.
            Up The Millers

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            • #7
              Poor are kept poor? Who exactly is keeping them poor?
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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              • #8
                Capitalist conspiracy of Enron-Evildoers (TM)?

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                • #9
                  As long as you don't give up your ideals, there's absolutely nothing wrong with loving your country

                  I feel exactly the same way
                  "I predict your ignore will rival Ben's" - Ecofarm
                  ^ The Poly equivalent of:
                  "I hope you can see this 'cause I'm [flipping you off] as hard as I can" - Ignignokt the Mooninite

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                  • #10
                    I doubt your average poor person has excess capital to invest in stocks; Enron style conspiracies or other wise.
                    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Oerdin
                      The idea that in order to build wealth someone has to lose wealth is just completely false.
                      It's just that the easiest way to make money is to take it from someone else. That's why holding someone up at gunpoint, forcing someone to work for free, ripping off customers or manipulating market prices are all basically stealing.

                      It goes without saying that if someone can act with impunity, they will (and so lies the moral of my next post.....). That's why we have laws not only against armed robbery, but laws for business as well. It also explains the beauty of democracy as well, as it makes everyone accountable in some way.

                      It's not the fault of capitalism, but capitalism without democracy is asking for trouble.

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                      • #12
                        Somebody has to be poor......always.

                        ACK!
                        Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Is it wrong to think the way I do?

                          The names have been changed to expose the ludicrous

                          I too was thinking about the other ways you can plot humanity on a graph, the great Bell Curves that affect and separate humanity. From the race curve that goes from darkest to lightest (or vice versa), to the wealth curve that goes from poorest to richest, to the coolness curve that goes from dorkiest to suaviest. Like many, I tried to find a group that it made a lot of sense to hate, and to, somehow, "get rid of" for the betterment of society.

                          And then I found it: the group that, if I were to argue for the eradication of the top 1% of, would benefit humanity from the great trickle down effect that would arise from their elimination:

                          Caloric consumers.

                          If we just eliminated, by throwing them into concentration camps and re-educational facilities, the top 1% of all fat people, we would save enough grain and meat to feed the bottom 15%, easily. The next time you see some 280 pound guy waddling home with a large Supreme pizza with extra-cheese, think about the fact that one pie has enough calories to sustain a Somalian family for 3 days. NFL teams would go back down to a more competitive weight, one where even guys like me can play.

                          This also prevents airliners and theaters from being improperly sued by people who's asses are too damned large for their single seats. Yes, aircraft seats are getting thinner, but we've also learned in the meantime that being large is no picnic for our health either - you've been supposed to have gotten skinnier along with the seats.

                          Most rich people are sickingly normal-weighted: too damned busy to eat, I guess. I doubt that my plan would put a damper on being rich, unless you own a lot of Conagra stock, or that one that always donates to the Repubs.

                          Therefore, in my world it's OK to be rich as long as you aren't fat! Who's with me!!!!????

                          ----------

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Is it wrong to think the way I do? (POLITICALLY/ECONOMICALLY)

                            Originally posted by Uber KruX
                            i could go on and on, at length, on both why i am a socialist, and why i love america with all of my heart. am i wrong in doing so?
                            No, you just want what's best for America. Not all of us have considered equality an unobtainable goal. Not all of us believe the ****ty propaganda that is spewed from the right. Some of us want America to do better.
                            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Oerdin
                              Poor are kept poor? Who exactly is keeping them poor?
                              The system. Opportunity is a benefit dependant on wealth and social status.
                              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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