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Portugal is our smaller neighbor, monk. 
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For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence) -
I don't think we have to go as far as Kosovo. From my knowledge of history, I can't see any reasons why France shouldn't be declared co-victor of WWI... but maybe somebody will enlighten me.Comment
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Portugal participated in WWI on the winning side.
Actually this came as quite a surprise to me when I found out. I wonder how much combat the Portuguese saw during those years.Comment
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You are right (WWI does not count). But even if we had won a war, preferably not a civil one though, this is not the reasons why we can be proud of France.Originally posted by Fez
You know every morning I wake up and say "Thank goodness I am not French. I never understood our disfunctional neighbors. How could anybody be proud of a country that hasn't won a single war in the 20th century?"
I will not bother to tell you what these reasons are, their access is restricted to those able to understand and appreciate.Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.Comment
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This "unlawful combatants" business is yet another stain in US history.Originally posted by SlowwHand
Some 680 detainees from 42 countries are in Guantanamo, categorized as unlawful combatants by the U.S. government.(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."Comment
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Portugal did? Hmm.. did Spain participate? I am not so sure about WWI.. I think like Argentina we stayed neutral.. but I will have to recheck that.Originally posted by Monk
Portugal participated in WWI on the winning side.
Actually this came as quite a surprise to me when I found out. I wonder how much combat the Portuguese saw during those years.
Davout, are you proud to be French?For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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We definitely won WWI, allied with other countries, but we paid an huge price for this (more than 6 mil. deads).
Yeah, that's what we say about Spain too, sometimesPortugal is our smaller neighbor, monk.
"An eye for eye only ends up making the whole world blind" - GandhiComment
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Yes you did but you needed a lot of help. I think France fought with great bravery in WWI. I don't know what happened in WWII.. I guess just being exhausted of war.Originally posted by Menlas
We definitely won WWI, allied with other countries, but we paid an huge price for this (more than 6 mil. deads).
Being tired of war is the reason why we did not get involved in WWII. We had a bloody three year civil war.
Well my mom told me when she was my age, she remembers Frenchmen throwing Spanish products into a river near the border. Is this still true?Yeah, that's what we say about Spain too, sometimes
For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Why not be proud to be French? A nation's pride need not and should not rest on military conquests, but on history and culture. France has one of the greatest cultural histories in the world. There's a reason why French was the language of refinement and diplomacy throughout Europe for a long time.
If you disagree with France's positions now, so be it, but it's pretty lame to tell French people they should be ashamed of who they are for some reason. I'd rather be French than Congolese at the moment.Tutto nel mondo è burlaComment
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Originally posted by SlowwHand
Screw the French.
You'd rather those Americans be caught in the middle of a firestorm?
Try and show a little gratitude, at least for the French soldiers who acted heroically. Maybe you can separate your bile for France from the actions of individual French?
THANK YOU to the French for saving those American lives.
Gee, that felt nice!Tutto nel mondo è burlaComment
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thank you france - you are still our ally.
That does not mean its not rational to punish them in some form. Clearly for the French to suffer no consequences for their actions in winter of 2003 might tend to encourage them and other states to take similar actions in the future - which if you share the admins view of US interests and possibly necessary future actions, would not be a good thing.
But that does NOT mean its rational to treat France as an enemy, or even as a neutral. Being a strategic rival AND being an ally are not incompatible. I wouldnt think id have to point that out here where most of us are civ or smac players. I would point to real world examples, like the western-russian relationship during ww2, or even the US - UK relationship during WW2.
France and the US still have many overlapping interests, from Afganistan to order in west africa, to the growth of the world economy. But that also does not mean we need to gloss over our disagreements, and realize they extend far beyond Iraq.
I would also point out another way im happy for france - one of the reasons France was as opposed to the Iraq war as she was, was fear of violence from her own muslim population - far larger and less assimilated than the US muslim population. AFAIK there has been no outbreak of violence in France since the war began - and I am glad of that - such violence would in no way serve the interests of my country."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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From my point of view, one can only be proud of what one has accomplished, therefore as it took 1000 years to build this country I cannot be proud of what it is today.Originally posted by Fez
Davout, are you proud to be French?
But I am happy to be French, I enjoyed it consistently, and above all I respect and admire the great guys who really did the job. And although I like the USA and (most of) its inhabitants, I would not change my passport for a US one.Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.Comment
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pah! you sound like a German!Originally posted by DAVOUT
From my point of view, one can only be proud of what one has accomplished, therefore as it took 1000 years to build this country I cannot be proud of what it is today.
But I am happy to be French, I enjoyed it consistently, and above all I respect and admire the great guys who really did the job. And although I like the USA and (most of) its inhabitants, I would not change my passport for a US one.
justice is mightComment
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Okay I have no problem with one being happy with ones nationality. I am myself if you haven't noticed. 
I just disagree with many of the positions taken by the French government.
For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Now where is Echtelion...Originally posted by oedo
pah! you sound like a German!
For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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