Say it ain't So-Sa!

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Shoeless Joe Jackson, whose memory is referenced in the title of this thread... and on the headlines of every sports page in America, it seems.

Nah, it wasnt him. He didnt play that series like he was throwing it. He batted over 300, had 12 RBIs and hit the series only homer.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And looked what happened there .

Yeah, Edmonton won another Stanley Cup in 1990 without Gretzky.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, Edmonton won another Stanley Cup in 1990 without Gretzky.

But the fans went nuts... the owner was even more hated.

And I doubt by trading Sosa you'll still have the talent to win a World Series .

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


Nah, it wasnt him. He didnt play that series like he was throwing it. He batted over 300, had 12 RBIs and hit the series only homer.

Neither I nor Monk claimed he did. Here was Monk's quote:

"just like that one guy on that team that rigged the world series a long time ago."

See? Neither of us assigned blame other than the bad luck of being on the team. That, and keeping mum about what he knew was wrong and illegal.

[My Wife Hates CIV]

Baseball has got to be the most boring sport. well... maybe after golf, but than again, golf is not really a sport.

The guy cheated. So what. From what I've read on the news this is nothing new for baseball. If he did pick up a loaded bat by mistake, what was that illegal bat doing in the dugout in the first place? Why not mark those with some colored tape or some other easy to see markings?

Is 'sorry' good enough?? Had he hit a homerun (a 3 run homerun i think it would have been) it would have counted (no one would have known) and added to his total. hmmm... a cheat filled total. perhaps 10 games out and a post count reduction of say 100. opps - i mean hit reduction.

[JohnT]

"And I doubt by trading Sosa you'll still have the talent to win a World Series."

I thought that's why they brought in Dusty "let's-put-in-the-pitcher-who's-gotten-blown-out-of-the-box-in-his-last-2-appearences-in-game-7-of-the-WS" Baker?

[JohnT]

So says John"It's-easy-to-second-guess-7-months-after-the-fact"T

[Imran Siddiqui]

Dusty is also known for killing young arms. Prior better watch out .

[Sava]

And I doubt by trading Sosa you'll still have the talent to win a World Series .

oh please... Sosa isn't a winner. What has Sosa won for them. Did Anaheim have a Sosa-type player? Hmmm guess not. In fact, if they can trade Sosa and get two solid players, the Cubs will be in a much better position. The Cubs also got to first place during the stretch of 14 or so games when Sosa was out. THe Cubs have pitching. That's what wins.

Dusty is also known for killing young arms

Name some.

And if you knew anything about Cubs baseball, you'd know Dusty has handled the pitching staff well. The only decision that I would call bad, would be his tendency to play Alfonseca. And he's only doing that because Alfonseca is on the trading block.

Also, if you knew anything about Mark Prior, you'd know his mechanics are excellent. Dusty Baker can't do much of anything to "kill his arm".

[Imran Siddiqui]

oh please... Sosa isn't a winner. What has Sosa won for them. Did Anaheim have a Sosa-type player? Hmmm guess not. In fact, if they can trade Sosa and get two solid players, the Cubs will be in a much better position. The Cubs also got to first place during the stretch of 14 or so games when Sosa was out. THe Cubs have pitching. That's what wins.

Yes, the Cubs may be in a better position, but they still don't have World Series caliber talent. They don't have the hitting without him (the bats you get back aren't going to be the quality of what you could have gotten for him). When Gretzky was traded by Edmonton, you still had Stanley Cup caliber talent in place.

Name some.

Come on! Dusty is known for his old school high pitch counts.

Want me to name one? Ok, Livan Hernandez! He has thrown the most high pitch games (120+) in the majors over the last 5 years.

And as for treating the Cubs pitching staff well:

http://www.futilityinfielder.com/archives/2003_05_11_futility_archive.html

Chicago Cubs manager Dusty Baker allowed Kerry Wood to throw an astounding 141 pitches in only seven innings Saturday

And evidence from the past:

http://www.baseballhq.com/free/free030214.shtml

Whereas the Cubs' managers last year were typical in their handling of starting pitchers, Baker had the distinction of allowing the most high-pitch outings among all managers.

Baker's reputation is to overwork starters and use only a small few excellent relievers in set roles at the end of games.

And:

http://longgandhi.com/052803.html

Much has been said about Wood's 141-pitch outing a few weeks ago. More should be said of his 113-pitch average per start. But at age 25, he's past the greatest risk age so I'm not convinced that injury is imminent. But it would be nice to see him get in a few low 100s pitch outings just to be safe. I am much more concerned about Mark Prior's 108-pitch per outing average at age 22 than I am with Wood's workload.

Dusty Baker has never been kind to young arms. Over his 10-year stay in San Francisco, his young pitchers endured some pretty heavy workloads and none of them improved their control as they became more acclimated to the majors. Not only did they not improve, but several spent time on the operating table during his tenure. It's possible, unfortunately, that we may find out more about the workload limits of young pitchers the expensive way in Chicago, even those who have already undergone reconstructive surgery.