The Apolyton Science Fiction Book Club: The Moon is a Harsh Mistress

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by St Leo
Most people ARE stupid.

What's the point of being intelligent when you have no say in the government?

Because the Intelligent people ARE the government.

[chequita guevara]

Heinlein seems to have picked up his ideas on revolution from the Communist Party and its degenerate spin-offs. Everything is top down, no democracy, etc. And yet, not one single revolution has ever happened that way. Revolutions, when successful, are lead by mass organizations with broad roots.

I find it hysterical that a "Leninist" organization is leading a revolution for capitalism.

[St Leo]

Because the Intelligent people ARE the government.

You have an odd definition of intelligence.

I could understand "intelligent people are university professors" or "intelligent people are kernel hackers", but "intelligent people are the government"? Nah.

The only intelligent politician I know of is the Latvian president and she only qualifies because she was a professor at a Montreal university for more than a decade.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Because the Intelligent people ARE the government.

Which government are you talking about? I know it's not any existing government.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And yet, not one single revolution has ever happened that way. Revolutions, when successful, are lead by mass organizations with broad roots.

What about the Bolshevik Revolution (the second Russian Revolution 1918)? Can't you argue some top down revolting was going on there?

I find it hysterical that a "Leninist" organization is leading a revolution for capitalism.

Why? The Leninist organization has proven the best way of organizing a revolt. All political creeds have adopted it.

[Rex Little]

Being a libertarian and a HUGE Heinlein fan, it pains me to criticize this book, but I’ve got to agree with John on one point. It seems highly doubtful that a shortage of women would result in women having all the power. I’m almost certain they’d be treated like property—valuable property to be sure, but property all the same.

I disagree with him, though, that Heinlein should have predicted the diffusion of computer power throughout society. No one in 1966 foresaw that. Everyone saw the future of computers as bigger, faster, more powerful, more centralized.

I’d like to pass on a theory I heard from David (son of Milton) Friedman many years ago. Consider the following passage from chapter 9 (page 97 in my paperback edition): “. . . we [Manny, Wyoh and Prof] added a signal under which any of us could lock out other two in emergency.” There are a couple of things that are odd about this. First, as a security measure it’s bass-ackwards. If any one of them turns traitor or goes rogue, he or she can take over or scuttle the revolution. A logical security measure would be to let any two of them, acting in agreement, lock out the third.

Second, why does Heinlein even bother to mention this? It’s never brought up again for the rest of the book.

Friedman’s theory is that it explains why Mike stopped communicating with Manny and Wyoh at the end of the book. Consider: whoever controlled Mike effectively had the power of life and death over everyone in Luna if he chose to use it. That power was needed to win the revolution, but once that was done, Prof would not have wanted anyone to have it—not his most trusted friends, not even himself. So with his mission accomplished, Prof used the lockout code, put a poison capsule in his mouth, gave his final speech, and bit down.

[Rex Little]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Heinlein, is/was a fascist

Spider Robinson (another excellent SF author) once wrote a response to this very comment:

"This is the most popular Heinlein shibboleth in fandom, particularly among the young--and of course, exclusively among the ignorant. . . . Dear sir or madam: kindly go to the library, look up the dictionary definition of fascism. For good measure, read the history of fascism, asking the librarian to help you with any big words. Then read the works of Robert Heinlein, which you have plainly not done yet. If out of 42 books you can produce one shred of evidence that Heinlein--or any of his protagonists--is a fascist, I'll eat my copy of Heinlein in Dimension."

Certainly there's no such evidence in this book. The Authority is the bad guy.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Friedman’s theory is that it explains why Mike stopped communicating with Manny and Wyoh at the end of the book. Consider: whoever controlled Mike effectively had the power of life and death over everyone in Luna if he chose to use it. That power was needed to win the revolution, but once that was done, Prof would not have wanted anyone to have it—not his most trusted friends, not even himself. So with his mission accomplished, Prof used the lockout code, put a poison capsule in his mouth, gave his final speech, and bit down.

That actually might make quiet a bit of sense. Either that, or the Prof KNEW he was going to die soon, so he shut off Mike to the others until he actually did pass. It does seem to make sense, because everything else dealing with Mike worked fine. The Prof was a crafty fellow... conspiring with Mike to go down to Earth, but not make any deals and so forth.

[Rex Little]

This doesn't relate to Mistress, but it does relate to Heinlein, so I thought I'd throw it in here. I visited Brookstone today and saw a self-propelled, self-guided vacuum cleaner. It reminded me of The Door Into Summer, a book Heinlein wrote which begins with an inventor developing. . . a self-propelled, self-guided vacuum cleaner. He wrote this book in 1956 and set it in 1970--and here it is 2003 and we're seeing this device for the first time.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, I think it's been around since 2000... but yeah, close enough .