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Stocks up, consumer spending down; Is Bush plan working?

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  • #76
    And a warning to Sava and Fez in this thread as well...

    Stop your personal little battle... argue the issues, and don't insult each other.

    From the number of complaints I'm getting about BOTH of you... I think people are just getting a tad sick of it.
    Keep on Civin'
    RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

    Comment

    • #77
      Fez, you know nothing, nothing about economics it seems. The government is supposed to moderate the bussiness cycle so we don't end up with another great depression. Read Keynes and sober up, Fezzie.

      Comment

      • #78
        And that warning goes to EVERYBODY as well..

        ATTACK THE ISSUES... NOT THE POSTER!
        Keep on Civin'
        RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

        Comment

        • #79
          Yes.. that is what Clinton tries to do...
          -So because Clinton did something, that makes it right then? In any case I was only pointing out the inconsistency in your argument. I do believe the President has some degree of control over the economy, not necessarily directly.
          "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
          -Joan Robinson

          Comment

          • #80
            Originally posted by Ming
            And a warning to Sava and Fez in this thread as well...

            Stop your personal little battle... argue the issues, and don't insult each other.

            From the number of complaints I'm getting about BOTH of you... I think people are just getting a tad sick of it.
            Sorry for any personal things... my future posts will be devoid of such things. I hope we can continue to discuss this topic.
            To us, it is the BEAST.

            Comment

            • #81
              Economic growth, though positive, has not been sufficient to generate jobs and prevent unemployment from rising. In fact, there are now more than two million fewer private sector jobs than at the start of the current recession. Overcapacity, corporate scandals, and uncertainty have and will continue to weigh down the economy.

              The tax cut plan proposed by President Bush is not the answer to these problems. Regardless of how one views the specifics of the Bush plan, there is wide agreement that its purpose is a permanent change in the tax structure and not the creation of jobs and growth in the near-term. The permanent dividend tax cut, in particular, is not credible as a short-term stimulus. As tax reform, the dividend tax cut is misdirected in that it targets individuals rather than corporations, is overly complex, and could be, but is not, part of a revenue-neutral tax reform effort.

              Passing these tax cuts will worsen the long-term budget outlook, adding to the nation’s projected chronic deficits. This fiscal deterioration will reduce the capacity of the government to finance Social Security and Medicare benefits as well as investments in schools, health, infrastructure, and basic research. Moreover, the proposed tax cuts will generate further
              inequalities in after-tax income.

              To be effective, a stimulus plan should rely on immediate but temporary spending and tax measures to expand demand, and it should also rely on immediate but temporary incentives for investment. Such a stimulus plan would spur growth and jobs in the short term without exacerbating the long-term budget outlook.
              from the Economic Policy Institute... an organization comprised of people much smarter than Bush and his advisors.
              George Akerlof*
              UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA-BERKELEY
              Kenneth J. Arrow*
              STANFORD UNIVERSITY
              Peter Diamond
              MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
              Lawrence R. Klein*
              UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA
              Daniel L. McFadden*
              UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA-BERKELEY
              Lawrence Mishel
              ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE
              Franco Modigliani*
              MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
              Paul A. Samuelson*
              MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
              Robert M. Solow*
              MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
              Joseph Stiglitz*
              COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY
              Laura D’Andrea Tyson
              LONDON BUSINESS SCHOOL
              Janet Yellen
              UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIABERKELEY
              Douglass C. North*
              WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY
              William F. Sharpe*
              STANFORD UNIVERSITY
              My opinions on Bush's policy come from people much smarter than me.
              To us, it is the BEAST.

              Comment

              • #82
                Hey, that wasn't too nice.. somebody deleted my post.. I didn't attack him in that post just answering the question.

                Originally posted by Sava

                Let me ask then... for the record... do you think Bush's tax cuts will improve the economy?
                Yes in my opinion I do think so.

                Sava, we must take some time to seperate from each other.. all we do is argue...
                For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                Comment

                • #83
                  Originally posted by Sava

                  from the Economic Policy Institute... an organization comprised of people much smarter than Bush and his advisors.

                  My opinions on Bush's policy come from people much smarter than me.
                  I have to disagree with those folks.

                  And besides didn't Bush attend Harvard and Yale as did many others in his adminstration? Put it anyways you like.. he is just as smart as those folks.

                  (Note: I am not attacking the poster, just discussing)
                  For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                  Comment

                  • #84
                    Bush got Cs at Yale though
                    "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
                    -Joan Robinson

                    Comment

                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Fez
                      I have to disagree with those folks.
                      Can you explain why, please?

                      And can you please cut and paste in your respond so I can see where you disagree with what they said?

                      Thanks
                      To us, it is the BEAST.

                      Comment

                      • #86
                        POLICY MEMORANDUM

                        SUBJECT: EPI comparison of the Daschle and Bush economic stimulus plans

                        FROM: Larry Mishel, EPI president

                        DATE: January 28, 2003

                        In a December 2002 Briefing Paper, Generating Jobs and Growth: An Economic Stimulus Plan for 2003, EPI identified five criteria for an effective stimulus plan. A comparison shows that the stimulus plan released by Senator Tom Daschle last week meets all five of these criteria, while President Bush’s plan fails on every count.

                        Criteria #1: A stimulus package should generate jobs and growth.
                        The Daschle plan would create more than a million jobs in the next year, three times as many as President Bush’s plan. It will also help the states protect jobs in education, police and fire protection, and other vital services. Unlike the Bush plan, which according to top econometric forecaster Economy.com will cost an estimated 750,000 jobs over 10 years, the Daschle plan will have no negative long-term effects.

                        Criteria #2: A stimulus package should be fiscally responsible.
                        The Daschle plan does not rob from future generations to provide large tax cuts for those who need them the least. It puts money into the economy now, when it’s needed most. In addition, the plan will take action against corporations that avoid paying their due in taxes by setting up special tax havens. By contrast, the Bush plan will cost $670 billion over 10 years.

                        Criteria #3: A stimulus plan should take effect quickly.
                        The Daschle plan puts $141 billion into the economy in 2003, compared to $50 billion in the Bush plan.

                        Criteria #4: A stimulus plan should be fair.
                        The Daschle plan puts money into the hands of middle-income working families who need it most and are most likely to spend it. Through $300 rebates for each adult in a family and $300 for each of the first two children, the plan would return $71 billion to families in 2003. In addition, the plan would extend federal unemployment insurance benefits for the one million individuals who exhausted their benefits in 2002. Given the increasingly unequal distribution of income in the United States, a stimulus plan that exacerbates this inequality is not acceptable. The Bush plan’s benefits disproportionately go to wealthy Americans who do not need extra cash and are more likely to save the money than to put it back into the economy.

                        Criteria #5: A stimulus package should target unmet needs.
                        The Daschle plan provides $40 billion to preserve vital state services, including $6 billion to ensure that every classroom has a qualified teacher and that vital services like after-school care and summer enrichment programs are available for the nation’s children. It also provides $4 billion for mass transit, highway, and airport infrastructure. The Bush plan adds no new funding for these purposes.
                        from http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm?id=1353
                        I agree with the Democrat plan.
                        To us, it is the BEAST.

                        Comment

                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Victor Galis
                          Bush got Cs at Yale though
                          But he did get a MBA though.. and what did he get at Harvard? I am not too clear about this.. I am more familiar with my own country's politics to be honest.

                          Sava, I just don't agree with their assessment. It is to my understanding, that I think the tax cut will help. I don't have an MBA or any kind of economics degree.. and I am not even in University yet.. but I can come to my own conclusions. I think that a tax cut will be highly beneficial for the country. But again this is my opinion. And I put all my coins on my opinion.
                          For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                          Comment

                          • #88
                            Fez, all I ask is that you highlight the portions you disagree with and tell me why? Feel free to link to other sites.
                            To us, it is the BEAST.

                            Comment

                            • #89
                              I'll have to get back to you in a hour, Sava. One of my favorite TV shows is on.. Dragnet.. later...
                              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                              Comment

                              • #90
                                sigh... whatever...

                                any other pro-Bushies care to debate this with me?
                                To us, it is the BEAST.

                                Comment

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