Now that we Amis have a nice tax cut, how to reduce spending to cover it?

[Sava]

cmon JohnT, I'm still waiting for you to defend the exclusion of the tax credit to poor families. I'm relying on you to convince me that .3% increase in income tax for less than 1% of the US population is more important than the well-being of 12 million children.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by JohnT
Now, in the name of fairness explain to me how you deserve a $400 check for paying $16.00 in taxes.

A tax credit has nothing to do with how much tax you pay. It's not a refund. Its a credit to help out people who have chidren. Deciding to only help people who have children who have a certain income is discrimination and class warfare.

[Sava]

Deciding to only help people who have children who have a certain income is discrimination and class warfare.

No, it's called "compassionate conservatism"

[JohnT]

Sava, you keep on changing the subject. Does that mean I won the prior debate(s)?

I'm trying to find the actual wording of the amendment but am having no luck. DanS - can you help?

Democrats.org says the following:

"Senate Democrats passed an amendment that ensured that all families with children would benefit from the child tax cut increase."

Which, of course, means my example above is flawed as it assumes no kids. Duh. Since we have to assume kids, I'm throwing away the 1040EZ and dealing with the 1040. Btw, you have no wife and are left raising the kid on your own.

Let's try again.

AGI: $14,000
Standard deduction (Head of Household): $6,900
Exemptions: $6,000
Taxable Income: $1,100
Tax: $111.00

Income Tax rate (based on AGI): .7%

God, Sava, that is oppressive.

Let's see... the top income under the Democrat amendment would've been $26,000... let's see how that works out:

AGI: $26,000
Deduction: $6,900
Exemptions: $6,000
Taxable Income: $13,100
Tax: $1,469.00

Comes to a Federal Tax rate of 5% of AGI. Again, not very oppressive in and of itself.

Understand that the above calculations are very simplified and denote the maximum tax that one would pay... i.e., no child tax credit (1040 line 50, for which your kid would've qualified), no Earned Income Credit (1040 line 64, for which you also qualify), etc. Had you taken the child tax credit, the tax in both samples would've been totally erased meaning that you would've paid no Federal Income Tax under the present tax code.

But wait, there's more...

At the $26,000 example (and below) you also are eligible for the Earned Income Tax Credit - in this case, $476.00, which will be added to the refund of all tax monies paid via withholding.

Please note, Kidicious, that the EIC is not dependant upon whether or not you have kids. Also note that even if line 61 (your total tax) = $0, you get this money.

I did not bother to figure out the EIC for the $14k/year earner... if you are interested in filling out the forms as I have done, please announce the results in this thread.

Unfortunately, in the $26,000 example, you are not eligible for the Additional Child Tax Credit (Form 8812) as the regular Child Tax Credit effective erased all taxes owed. However, in the $14,000 example you could've taken an additional $365 in tax credits....which would've been refunded to you, though line 50 would've erased your tax liability.

So the Democrats sponsored an amendment for people who not only don't pay Federal Income Tax, but already receive a tax refund/credit for taxes that they don't pay.

Sorry, but feelings of guilt and/or outrage are not exactly taking control of me.

[JohnT]

Spend all that time filling out Federal Tax forms and Sava doesn't even have the graciousness to tell me that I'm wrong 'cause he doesn't "think" it really works that way. Even Frogger was more polite.

[Sava]

Originally posted by JohnT
Spend all that time filling out Federal Tax forms and Sava doesn't even have the graciousness to tell me that I'm wrong 'cause he doesn't "think" it really works that way. Even Frogger was more polite.

I haven't been to this thread since my last post. Some of us have lives.

And I was quite clear. I don't care if they don't pay federal income taxes. They still have to pay a plethora of other taxes. You seem to think it's unfair that these people are receiving money. Your views are quite hilarious. You'd be against poor people having abortions, yet don't want to help the ones that decide to have children. That's a pathetic way of thinking. And I'm sorry, I don't feel sorry for the people making over $280,000 grand and increasing their tax rate by .3% when many children in America don't have proper health care, education, and are hungry.

[Japher]

Some of us have lives.

[JohnT]

Well, Sava, I do care. People who don't pay taxes don't deserve a tax credit/refund. Pure and simple.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Japher

Yeah, I found that pretty funny too.

[Sava]

Originally posted by JohnT
Well, Sava, I do care. People who don't pay taxes don't deserve a tax credit/refund. Pure and simple.

They do pay taxes... just not income taxes. You can't give a sales tax refund. And it's sickening that you think it's okay to give rich people enormous tax cuts when millions of children are living in poverty.

[DAVOUT]

I though that the concept of negative income tax was discovered in the US.

[Sava]

What I also find interesting is the same people that think it's an absolute travesty that poor people dare get $400 dollars, don't seem to care about the massive handouts that corporations receive. Enron didn't pay one cent of federal income tax between 1995-2000, and then received over 300 million from Bush's 2001 plan. Personally, I think that's a lot worse than trying to help poor people.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Sava
You can't give a sales tax refund.

Why are you whining about a federal tax credit then? Take your gripes up with the states.

[Sava]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why are you whining about a federal tax credit then? Take your gripes up with the states.

A convenient excuse... I have enough gripes with the state of Illinois, no need to pollute this thread with that.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Enron didn't pay one cent of federal income tax between 1995-2000

Proof?