Greek Mythology

[orange]

This is barbarism. Reading Ancient works in the original brings to light the limits of even the finest translators.

I realize that you may just be making a point, but the fact that your comment smacks of elitism (among 90% of the others you post) becomes highly irritating.

I hope you don't regard this as a personal attack...our politics are pretty much on-line with one another, but I notice this in a lot of your posts

[Agathon]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man

this is why i need a good 'teach me' book.

Start with the Groton. It's the standard book they use here at U of T - I learned the basics from it - get a teacher edition so you get the solutions to the problems as well. It will give you all the basic grammar - the rest is just practice and more practice.

[reds4ever]

If you don't mind paying....

www3.open.ac.uk/courses/bin/p12.dll?C02A296_humanities

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Agathon
This is barbarism. Reading Ancient works in the original brings to light the limits of even the finest translators.

Originally posted by Agathon
I don't read Homer in Greek myself (more a case of not having the time to learn the dialect) but reputedly it isn't that hard since there are many standard repeated forms and lines - e.g. "Then Agamemnon, sacker of cities...."

Hypocrisy, thy name is...

Look, Andy-Man, no doubt there are nuances of language in any work that aren't translatable to other languages. The question is will your investment in time of learning Homeric Greek be worth it? Will the amount of effort made to read the works in the original languages pay off in some sort of new epiphany of the nature of these works that isn't available from even the best translations?

I'd say, unlikely. If you're that interested in the Greek language to do it, by all means go ahead... I just think your time could be better spent!

[reds4ever]

I agree with Boris, I looked at doing a course last year, IMHO to make it worth my while I'd have had to learn it to a standard that made the translations done by professional scholars redundant to me.

In otherwords it may be an interesting intellectual exercise but theres more important things out there I don't know and would like to learn....

[Firelad]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
...new epiphany of the nature of these works that isn't available from even the best translations?

Yes, the fact that it is originally a work of poetry and song... The most that translators can do is make it a sort of poetry. Certainly not the singing work it is supposed to be. Just a question of how much you want to get it. I personally (while having read translations only, unfortunately, no matter how excellent) see little point, if all the articles I read about it are correct, to read translations of the Illiad and Oddysey, simply because as fiction they are less than exceptional. It is the effect of the language that (supposedly) makes them superb.

Of course, take all I say with a grain of salt, as I do not speak from personal knowledge

[Zopperoni]

Yes, Homer wrote in a certain form, dactyllic hexameters (I don't know if this is the correct English term). The verses follow a certain rhythm.
This is why poetry is so much more of a pain to translate than prose; the order of words is sometimes a bit illogical (because the words have to fit the rhythm).

I don't think I have my old school notes with exact details anymore unfortunately. (I had three years of Greek, and six years of Latin.)

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Hypocrisy, thy name is...

There's a difference between, I don't read Homer in the original and I can't read Homer in the original. I can read it up to a point, and have done so; but I just don't have the time to get my epic up to a good standard.

And despite what you say, my point still holds. You miss a lot in translations from Ancient Greek. I should know - I personally translated the entirety of Plato's Sophist last year. If he really wants to get to grips with Homer, he should read it in the Greek.

Look, Andy-Man, no doubt there are nuances of language in any work that aren't translatable to other languages.

But Greek is afflicted by this to an unusual degree. For example, it is very difficult to convey the emphasis intended in a Greek sentence into an English sentence because English does not support noun cases and has a comparatively inflexible attitude to word order. Not to mention other things like puns and allusions.

The question is will your investment in time of learning Homeric Greek be worth it? Will the amount of effort made to read the works in the original languages pay off in some sort of new epiphany of the nature of these works that isn't available from even the best translations?

The answer is yes. If you aren't reading it in Greek you aren't reading Homer and you are at the mercy of the translator. Similarly with Plato, et al. In many cases in Greek Literature the texts are ambiguous and it just isn't possible to convey the ambiguity in English without butchering the text.

I'd say, unlikely. If you're that interested in the Greek language to do it, by all means go ahead... I just think your time could be better spent!

If you want a means of improving your grasp of the structure and capacities of language, Greek is an excellent choice, even without the bonus of the literature.

[Ramo]

Learning Homeric Greek seems awfully pointless to me, unless you're extraordinarily good at learning languages. Why not something more useful?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by orange

I realize that you may just be making a point, but the fact that your comment smacks of elitism (among 90% of the others you post) becomes highly irritating.

Oh poo! I study Ancient Greek and I care about the preservation of the language a great deal. I'd like to see more people study it - I can't see what's elitist about wanting to help anyone who wants to learn Greek - in fact that seems to be just the opposite.

We could always start an Apolyton Greek reading group since a stack of people here seem to have learned Greek.

I hope you don't regard this as a personal attack...our politics are pretty much on-line with one another, but I notice this in a lot of your posts.

Everyone's an elitist about some things - I make no apologies for caring about Greek.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ramo
Learning Homeric Greek seems awfully pointless to me, unless you're extraordinarily good at learning languages. Why not something more useful?

I guess you just have to experience the pleasure of Greek to see its use. I count learning Greek as one of the best things I ever did.

[Ramo]

Modern Greek might be somewhat useful sure, but Homeric Greek?

[The Andy-Man]

well, homer isn't the only reason, there is ofcourse other authors, aswell as the fact to say 'i can...'.


Its something of more a hobby or something, like gardening, except this could take me many more years then ever planting trees and watching them grow, though (to be boring ) learning this langaine will be like gardening, i plant the seed of language and.........



thanks for all the help so far everyone, a ghreek reading thing would be cool if it helped non-speakers learn..

[RGBVideo]

NO!

Start learning Finnish, instead!

Seriously, there are more useful languages, instead of dead ones, IMO.

[The Andy-Man]

Originally posted by Tuomerehu
NO!

Start learning Finnish, instead!

Seriously, there are more useful languages, instead of dead ones, IMO.

but as i said, i am not doing it because it is usefull as such (though it is very usefull to someone who reads greek philosophers )