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Originally posted by Kirnwaffen
And as long as environments continue to change. Without change in the envrionment, there would be no need for evolution.
If a single species in that environment changes, then that itself changes the environment.
I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).
Check out the stuff by Teliard (sp?) de Chardin. He saw evolution as a God designed process that's heading toward the Omega Point, a stage when mankind has evolved into all loving Christ-like figures.
Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
-Richard Dawkins
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
From what I have been able to ascertain, official status as a horse's ass.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
"Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead
Evolution is the change in gene frequencies over time. Thus, to stop biological evolution, variation among a species must be 0 (homozygous for every allele), and mutations would have to be non-existant. Without those 2 mechanisms, differential reproductive success would be 0 since there is only 1 constant genotype.
Any time there are more than 1 genotypes of species, evolution will occur.
Uberkrux, the article you posted does not claim it is possible to make a truly intelligent machine
About the original post, who knows.. I have been reading about genes recently (Matt Ridley: Genome) and it is quite fascinating on that level. How simple data from the genes combined and combined and combined to finnaly arrive at a stage where its hosts (us) have the ability to spread them into space. Wow
Originally posted by VetLegion
Uberkrux, the article you posted does not claim it is possible to make a truly intelligent machine
the "article", which was actally a paper i wrote, states that we cannot claim to create an intelligent machine, nor claim we cannot, until we understand our own consiousness.
"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
How can we claim to be able to go out and create artificial intelligence when we still cannot explain the basic foundations of our own cognitive frameworks? Simply put, we cannot.
This is from your article Uber. Sorry, but I'm right.
Lord Merciless
Biotech community is working hard on directed evolution. The methods are still very primitive and not much better than the nature can offer. But if Department of Energy's (DOE) Genome to Life project succeeds....
just a small step as they say on the way...
Lincon:
The end is that only the fittest will survive. Everything will be destroyed except the creator of evolution.
well the fittest is God... which is the same in your case, just it might have been the product of evolution as we believe in it at the moment
Soul Survivor
well with infinite time or infinite space (matter that is) god must already exist
actually never thought of it in this way - but well... yes
Loinburger
It'll probably end with good old fashioned entropy. When the suns have all burned out there won't be any more life, so evolution will have come to an end.
not neccessarily as there is only so much that we know about the universe now, that it is entirely possible that we might learn how to deal with it, aren't we ourselves - matter that defies entropy in every possible way imaginable - we might just as well find the cure to that "possible end" problem.
reds4ever
Evolution doesn't strive to create anything, organisms merely adapt or die, it's not a 'process' that needs to 'complete'
it doesn't need to complete but evolutioin in infinity produces God... if you follow on the line that "life" was getting more complex until the production of self-awarenes of the matter about itself (people) and it has greatly speeded up since, actually human knowledge is said to go up on an exponential curve ( which is knowlege of the universe about itself effectivley) while space/time still go linearly up in size while not developing at all as far as we know regarding the principles that rule it... which in effect sooner or later we will get to the ability to rule the universe or know all there is about it or even beyond it - effectivley a position of God... well that is the product of evolution as it is...
reds4ever
Why evolve? when an organism reaches a certain level of technology (ie. us) the enviroment can be made to adapt to suite the organism
well is this all that people strive for, if it stops most of people isn't there a probability that a certain % of people will continue on the quest for knowledge pure and simple, a quest further even though they have everything to survive at the point - given our human nature I would consder that a certainty - Maslow's self actualization infact...
On all biological/technological evolution debate - well think of evolution in my terms as develpoment... biological took a long time in human life terms, techonogical is but a glimpse of the time involved and it will be getting faster and faster - which is knowledge accumulation within our race/other races if they exist...
assuming that some of them/us implode... the others will survive and contionue on the quest that is unstoppable progress in getting to know more about the environment around that interests us...
just think of the milestones
- eternal life at first - be it merging with the machines, or perfecting our technologies to replace and construct our biological cells/organs which will at first just have an "expiry date" and later on those replacements will be "perfectly functioning" ie-- no ageing - OK, that might be a long time from now let's say 10000 years from now, but it should be technically feasible, if we start to engineer on atomic level I am sure the "perfectly manufactured organs will be high on the list of desireability" unless we develop into some mechanical form before - we have started already on that quest - prostetic limbs, artifical teeth, replacement of the organs, heart transplants - etc... this is just the beginning but I guess you should be able to see where I am coming from...
second - body is just an overhead -if we can dispose of it entirely - who knows? just an idea... but this is not it...
third
and than the intelligence - which is in effect the matter in the universe itself (us or some other sentient evolved being) will find eventually all of its finite(or at least linearly expandable) numbers of mechanisms, laws, and their combinations, comprehend it.. and here you have God - OK maybe it will take next 10 billion years, but if evolution as a process is to be believed I think this is inevitable.
Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"
I don't know. Yet, I think one problem is assuming that a god like being is the end all to evolution. It is a intrinsic statement that the more you learn the more you know. Yet, I think that the more you know the more you realize you don't know. Meaning that the smarter you get the more questions you have indicating that by infact becoming smarter you actually are becoming more realtively ignorant.
Also, I think I have a problem with the basic definition of evolution. For human evolution is wacked (there's a great scientifc word). For if evolution is the ability to increase your ability to survive, than why are we also increasing our ability to destroy? Humans in on themselves will be the end to their own evolution, we are a self-destructive breed...
Thus, with these to theories in hand, the end of evolution is and will be just like our beginnig... Stupid, innocent child, in the care of a garden, filled with good and evil... and we won't care to tell the difference.
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