Should developed nations refuse to take exports from LDCs that have weak labour laws?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I picked my nose in 1997 and our economy did well that year. Do the 2 have anything to do with each other?

Sorry, that isn't the same thing at all, and you know it! The 'slave wages' and 'sweatshops' were instrumental in South Korea and Japan's growth. It created a middle class of people, who, when powerful enough (and skilled) were able to create their own businesses and corporations. Take out the sweatshops, and I'm not sure I have a Sony TV.

Wages are not going to grow like that, because there is so much labor. There could never be upward pressure on wages due to demand alone.

edit: I think your TV was made in Mexico

[Imran Siddiqui]

Wages are not going to grow like that, because there is so much labor. There could never be upward pressure on wages due to demand alone.

Well why not? You give people jobs and they spend more with the more money they get (increasing their living standard). They are richer than the normal folk, right? They have more disposable income than they would otherwise. They'll have more money. Their kids will be more educated because of it (through taxes and spending). By being more educated, they will be more skilled labor, getting more money... as generations grow, they will get more and more skilled.

[Shi Huangdi]

"

I can't agree that starvation wages and child labor lead to prosperity. "

Even if that is not the case, it will at least provide jobs for the exponentially growing population.

"
South Korea? Japan after WW2? Come on, it has happened in the past!"

Good point, in fact every industrialized country strarting with Britain went through a sweatshop/child labor conditions period at one point.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Wages are not going to grow like that, because there is so much labor. There could never be upward pressure on wages due to demand alone.

Well why not? You give people jobs and they spend more with the more money they get (increasing their living standard). They are richer than the normal folk, right? They have more disposable income than they would otherwise. They'll have more money. Their kids will be more educated because of it (through taxes and spending). By being more educated, they will be more skilled labor, getting more money... as generations grow, they will get more and more skilled.

There is so much cheap labor that the increase in wages isn't enough to do all this. The money that is injected into the local economy isn't enough. Furthermore, wages won't increase because as you say MNCs can just build the next factory some where else.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
"
South Korea? Japan after WW2? Come on, it has happened in the past!"

Good point, in fact every industrialized country strarting with Britain went through a sweatshop/child labor conditions period at one point.

All those nations protected their own markets. Britain and Japan used mercantalist strategies. The US is just the US, expanding frontier, British heritage, etc.. Things can't work like that in say Indonesia.

edit: Even with this I think the higher wages in the industrial nations are more the result of pro-labor laws and the realization of business that if they didn't do something for labor that they would be facing revolt. Supply and demand only played a secondary part.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
"You forgot that this happens because of the WB or the IMF forcing these countries to open their markets as conditions for loans."

Neither of those institutions can force a soverign nation to do anything, any assistance by them is voluntary. It is their own fault if they enter into bad deals.

Yeah, like sh!t never happens.

[Kidlicious]

:yawn:

Same old arguments. If the developed nations did do this it would be the same as refusing trade from these nations anyway since cheap labor is the only reason to import manufactured goods from them.

[Imran Siddiqui]

There is so much cheap labor that the increase in wages isn't enough to do all this. The money that is injected into the local economy isn't enough. Furthermore, wages won't increase because as you say MNCs can just build the next factory some where else.

It slowly but surely builds. The MNC only helps at the lower rungs, the higher up rungs (the more skilled) can try to create their own companies... or get jobs at other MNCs that may try to come in to capitalise on the new skilled laborers. The cycle continues.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

There is so much cheap labor that the increase in wages isn't enough to do all this. The money that is injected into the local economy isn't enough. Furthermore, wages won't increase because as you say MNCs can just build the next factory some where else.

It slowly but surely builds. The MNC only helps at the lower rungs, the higher up rungs (the more skilled) can try to create their own companies... or get jobs at other MNCs that may try to come in to capitalise on the new skilled laborers. The cycle continues.

Assuming that an increase in demand for labor increases wages you would need just that. If the demand for labor stays the same there will be no increase in wages. They will stay the same. So you won't get the increase in productivity that you are talking about.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why wouldn't you? If you have a further educated class, they will form their own businesses or have another MNC (or the same one) offer them higher wages. Simple as that.

[Dinner]

I could see the American people being 100% behind a law which would block out sweets shop products and the proceeds of Child labor. If we could force 3rd world countries to also play on an even enviromental and ecological playing field then so much the better.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I could see the American people being 100% behind a law which would block out sweets shop products and the proceeds of Child labor.

Until they see how much the price of shirts have risen .

[Dinner]

Sure they'd pay a bit more but as soon as the Democrates roll out a bunch of textile workers from the south who no longer have to compete with child labor from south Asia people will stay happy enough. Especially when the millions of union ad dollars start to tell them how wonderful everything is.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think you underestimate how sweat-shop labor keeps our products cheap .

[Dinner]

Sweet shops do keep products cheap but if we forced the sweet shops to...oh... hire only adults instead of child laborers then we might just improve the world a bit.