Why faith is an impossible argument

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by loinburger
Faith is illogical, but so what? You can't live life by logic alone. (Or maybe you could, but why would you want to?)

Not everybody wants to be drunk all the time.

[Lord Merciless]

Indonesia should be nuked, cleaned up by the survivors, and then repopulated.

[Urban Ranger]

Wrong thread

[Imran Siddiqui]

Faith is illogical, but so what? You can't live life by logic alone. (Or maybe you could, but why would you want to?)

We aren't robots. We require emotions to be human, and we have faith that are emotions are true.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Faith is illogical, but so what? You can't live life by logic alone. (Or maybe you could, but why would you want to?)

We aren't robots. We require emotions to be human, and we have faith that are emotions are true.

True as in what? That the chemicals inducing these emotions are actually coursing through your veins?

[Imran Siddiqui]

True as in this is what we actually feel in our minds and souls. We have faith in a wide variety of things. Faith that our opinions are correct. Faith that we are alive and living beings.

Those who are only logical, or attempt to be are truely boring beings. They have no emotion, no passion, and are a real snooze.

When you love, do you believe it is simply chemicals and thus nothing to get worried over, or do you believe your feelings to be true and meaningful?

[Sava]

It is possible to be logical and still have emotion.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Sava: Yes, if you rely on both logic and faith. But if you simply wish to rely ONLY on logic, there is no room for emotion. Because, put it simply, emotion is like faith, it is irrational. We have faith that the emotions we feel are important, when logically they really aren't.

This shows itself in the movie cliche: Save your girl or save the 100 other people. Logically you go for the 100, Emotionally you go for the girl. Of course in the movies, you save both .

[Sava]

I disagree Imran. I don't see how it would be logical to save more lives. The importance of life is based upon emotion. Logically, death is the same state as before you were born. I cannot recall that state as being bad. So logically, death wouldn't be bad.

I'm not suggesting people rely solely on logic. You simply can't do that. I think a proper balance is necessary. When you rely too much on faith (religious or otherwise), it's bad. Likewise with logic.

I also don't understand why emotion is regarded as illogical. Human beings are emotional creatures. Chemicals and hormones are responsible for our emotions. Granted, I can't imagine not having emotions (say in some sort of spiritual existence). But in terms of the human experience, emotions are logical. They serve distinct purposes; survival and mating being the two most important that I can think of.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
True as in this is what we actually feel in our minds and souls.

Isn't this circular? Or rather, a tautology? Aren't emotions what you feel in your mind?

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
We have faith in a wide variety of things. Faith that our opinions are correct. Faith that we are alive and living beings.

How are these faith items? What is faith to you?

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Those who are only logical, or attempt to be are truely boring beings. They have no emotion, no passion, and are a real snooze.

Oh boy. Emotions are not the same as faith, even though both have characteristics that are the same.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
When you love, do you believe it is simply chemicals and thus nothing to get worried over, or do you believe your feelings to be true and meaningful?

"Meanings" are artificial constructions. Things only have meanings that we attach to them. However, there is a purpose to love.

Let me ask you, what is the "meaning" of love?

[Lorizael]

The problem is that we don't know enough about human psychology to always be able to divine the source of our emotions, making them appear to be irrational and illogical.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I don't see how it would be logical to save more lives.

Perhaps it is because throughout all your posts, you have shown that you don't think logically .

Logically, death is the same state as before you were born. I cannot recall that state as being bad

Would you rather be alive in the world or not be born yet? I'd take the former.

I think a proper balance is necessary.

That is what I was saying.

I also don't understand why emotion is regarded as illogical.

For the simple reason that logic is that which we have tested out and found evidence for and decided based on that evidence. The logical answer is that which is reasoned out. Emotion is never tested. It can never be reasoned out. It is exact OPPOSITE of being reasoned out. It simply exists and is there. It cannot be logical.

Those we consider most 'logical' are those that make their arguments devoid of emotion.

[Imran Siddiqui]

What is faith to you?

Faith is that which is a belief that does not rest on logical grounds. Emotion is the same. A feeling, something that does not rest on any logical grounds.

Let me ask you, what is the "meaning" of love?

I cannot define it. There is no logical explination for it. It is simply something we feel. It is illogical, but still important.

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
True as in this is what we actually feel in our minds and souls. We have faith in a wide variety of things. Faith that our opinions are correct. Faith that we are alive and living beings.

Those who are only logical, or attempt to be are truely boring beings. They have no emotion, no passion, and are a real snooze.

When you love, do you believe it is simply chemicals and thus nothing to get worried over, or do you believe your feelings to be true and meaningful?

I think we need to make a distinction here. The distinction is between what I like and what really exists.

For example, I'd like it if Santa Claus existed. My subjective feelings and preferences are a part of emotion.

However, I don't think Santa Claus exists based on realworld evidence. My objective perceptions of the world should be based on logic.

"Faith" is the application of subjective feeling ("what I feel") onto objective perception ("what therefore is"). For example, if I really like Santa Claus and I conclude that hence HE MUST EXIST, that is "faith". And as you can see, it is nuts.

Hence "faith" is illogical as a concept.

[Sava]

Would you rather be alive in the world or not be born yet? I'd take the former.

The question is impossible to answer. Nobody knows what non-existence is like, whether there are alternate states of reality, perception, or existence. For all we know, our consciousnesses could be free roaming spirits that get trapped in bodies. Perhaps death and pre-birth are purely divine states and we are stuck in this existence until we die. Nobody knows. And anyone who says they do is full of sh1t.

I'm a very logical person... but as with any human, my emotions cause me to be irrational.