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  • Iraqi's Unite

    Iraqis unite for anti-US march
    Thousands of Shia and Sunni Muslims have marched through Baghdad protesting against the US occupation, and demanding a say in the new Iraqi Government.
    Up to 10,000 people gathered in front of a Sunni Muslim mosque in northern Baghdad, then marched across a bridge over the Tigris to the Kadhamiya quarter, home to one of Iraq's holiest Shia shrines.

    The march - one of the largest since the war ended - shows how religious voices from the two main branches of Islam are getting stronger as negotiations for an interim authority take shape, says the BBC's Barbara Plett in Baghdad.

    It comes as Iraq's new US administrator, Paul Bremer, conducts a major review of the country's security needs - and of plans for the its political future.

    Many have been calling for an Islamic revival in post-war Iraq, especially the majority Shias, but fearful of sectarian splits they put on a show of unity with the minority Sunnis, who ran the country under Saddam Hussein, our correspondent says.

    Soldiers watch protest

    The demonstrators marched to celebrate the birthday of the prophet Mohammed but their slogans were political.


    They said those Iraqis negotiating with the Americans were exile groups who did not represent them.
    "What we are calling for is an interim government that represents all segments of Iraqi society," said Ali Salman, an activist.

    Small groups of US infantrymen, including snipers on nearby rooftops, watched the rally but did not intervene, AP reported.

    Several dozen Shia organizers armed with rifles patrolled the area. They, too, were left alone by the Americans.

    There was a second protest in Baghdad on Monday, as about 100 bus drivers demanded their company chief be reinstated by the US authorities who sacked him because of his Baath Party background.

    Delays in transition

    BBC Middle East analyst Roger Hardy says it is clear that Mr Bremer is reassessing how to handle the promised transition from American to Iraqi rule.

    And although he is not ready to confirm it, the signs are the transition will be slower than originally planned, our analyst says.

    The political groups which were formally in opposition - and now consider themselves the country's embryonic leadership - have been quick to criticise what Mr Bremer told them in a closed meeting on Friday.

    He reportedly said the Americans and the British would have to govern the country for an "indefinite period" - and declined to commit himself to a timetable for handing over power to an interim Iraqi authority.

    His predecessor, Jay Garner, had said the nucleus of such an authority would emerge this month. That now looks too optimistic.

    The Americans fear that if they rush to empower a group of "emerging leaders", this might produce a weak and unstable government.

    But if they govern the country themselves - and control its oil and its oil revenues - they risk being increasingly resented as a new colonial power.


    Story from BBC NEWS:
    BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service


    Published: 2003/05/19 11:46:37 GMT
    To us, it is the BEAST.

  • #2
    ...for anti-US march


    in all seriousness though, I've read that the US plans are calling for greater international support. Good. I'm tired of the US having all the burden and responsibility. This is why I wanted UN support. Regardless of whether the UN is competent or not, it's still important to at least have them on board. I hope that soon US troops can be rotated out and replaced with some sort of International Peacekeeping force. UN or otherwise.
    To us, it is the BEAST.

    Comment


    • #3
      I always thought this post-war period was going to be the hard bit of the whole thing.
      Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
      Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
      We've got both kinds

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MikeH
        I always thought this post-war period was going to be the hard bit of the whole thing.
        Among the anti-war people I know... this was the general cause for concern and the reason UN involvement/approval was necessary. I had full confidence that the US military would wipe the floor with the pathetic Iraqi army. And I was for removing Saddam. I just disagreed with Bush's cowboy approach and disliked his ineptitude in building a pre-war coalition.
        To us, it is the BEAST.

        Comment


        • #5
          Of course. Although normally if you said tried to explain that you were anti war you tended to be shouted down as a cowardly eurocom before anyone bothered to read that far.
          Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
          Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
          We've got both kinds

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, nobody tried doing that to my face. But I'm not going to berade the pro-war crowd. There are ignorant extremists on both sides. I've had many conversations with intelligent, polite people that agreed with Bush... not online though

            As for the on-topic issue:
            I have a bad feeling the US is going to have lots of resources commited to Iraq for a long time to come. A lot of money is going to be wasted... a lot of Americans will be in harm's way, and maybe... 50 years later (if Korea is any indication of how long we could be in Iraq) we'll leave.
            To us, it is the BEAST.

            Comment


            • #7
              True, some of the anti-war people did really annoy me as well.

              Agree about the long term military presence. Never mind Korea, what about Germany? That's getting on for 60 years now.
              Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
              Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
              We've got both kinds

              Comment


              • #8
                Thing is in germany people don't fill trucks full of explosives and drive them at US bases which could happen if they don't tread carefully in Iraq
                Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
                Douglas Adams (Influential author)

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                • #9
                  I don't mind the extended presence in Germany, there was a little thing called the Cold War... As long as the US presence prevented Russian tanks from overrunning Berlin, or at least contributed to the war staying Cold, I'm not about to second guess it.
                  To us, it is the BEAST.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TheStinger
                    Thing is in germany people don't fill trucks full of explosives and drive them at US bases which could happen if they don't tread carefully in Iraq
                    To us, it is the BEAST.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Like a gigantic northern ireland then.
                      Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                      Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                      We've got both kinds

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        They don't have suicide bombers in NI
                        Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
                        Douglas Adams (Influential author)

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                        • #13
                          meanwhile in other US occupied countries

                          http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0305200327may20,1,7509950.story?coll=chi%2Dnewsopi nion%2Dhed
                          Don't forget Afghanistan



                          May 20, 2003

                          Anti-American protests erupted recently in Kabul, the first since the United States and its allies drove the Taliban from power in late 2001. The protesters were angry that the rebuilding of their country, which they hoped would bring jobs and a bit of prosperity to this war-ravaged land, was going so slowly.

                          That this protest was the first after almost two years of American forces in the country attests not only to what many say is a deteriorating situation, but also to the residual goodwill that many Afghans held for Americans after the Taliban were ousted. In Iraq, by contrast, the first anti-American protests broke out almost immediately after Saddam Hussein was toppled.

                          While it is true that the installation of Afghan President Hamid Karzai was a model of international cooperation, efforts to consolidate his control and rebuild the country have fallen far short of expectations. Many of the promises made by the U.S. and the international community for billions in aid have been delayed because the security situation there remains haphazard.

                          There is a danger that as concern grows over disorder in Iraq, Afghanistan will be allowed to slip further back on an ever-growing list of national priorities. At least one Afghan official has warned that the country could become a "narco-terrorist" state if more aid isn't forthcoming. Even though a far bigger task is at hand in Iraq, the U.S. cannot let Afghanistan fall into chaos.

                          Since the war, several thousand American soldiers in Afghanistan have focused most of their efforts on scouring the countryside for former Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters, an effort that has made them increasingly unpopular among ordinary citizens. Meanwhile, a relatively small number of international peacekeepers has been unable to extend operations much beyond the capital. That has basically frozen significant rebuilding efforts. But recently, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld announced that U.S-led forces were shifting their focus from combat to reconstruction, despite a recent surge in fighting and fears that Al Qaeda is regrouping.

                          That shift is welcome, but the U.S. is still in a delicate balancing act. For relief to reach the provinces, there must be a measure of security restored. The recent killings of aid workers, American soldiers and attacks on Afghan officials suggest that there aren't enough peacekeeping troops on the ground. It's unrealistic to expect a huge infusion of new troops with Iraq's reconstruction looming. But American and international forces should be consolidated under a single command, with a basic mission: make the country safe.

                          At the same time, the U.S. must accelerate its training of a new Afghan army to take over as soon as possible. Only a reliable, effective army in Kabul's full control has any hope of counterbalancing the druglords and warlords who apparently enjoy fairly free reign in many provinces of Afghanistan. Realistically, that is still months, if not years, away. The U.S. has so far trained only about 3,000 of an expected force of 70,000. The Americans should also consider recruiting other countries--particularly the British, who have proven effective in such training--to help speed the process.

                          Building a strong economy and democratic infrastructure in Afghanistan is the surest way to drain the warlords' power. Frustrated by the slowness of reconstruction, and the failure of aid organizations to reach more remote areas, American officials over the winter launched the first of several reconstruction teams, groups of 40 to 60 people, including civil affairs soldiers, State Department diplomats, U.S. Agency for International Development personnel and military contractors. That was long overdue.

                          Some international aid workers argue that such teams blur the lines between military and humanitarian work and could endanger relief workers. Still, those teams represent the most reasonable way to spread relief beyond Kabul.

                          In many ways, the rebuilding of Afghanistan is a far greater challenge than Iraq. The latter has a sizeable middle class and had well-established, if corrupt, government institutions. The institutions of state must be created from scratch in Afghanistan. That will take a sustained, invigorated effort by America and its allies. The euphoria of allied victory in Afghanistan has long since faded. Now American resolve is being tested in a different way.


                          Copyright © 2003, Chicago Tribune
                          I wouldn't be so concerned about Iraq if we were making progress in Afghanistan... so far the US isn't winning the "peace". The article mentions rebuilding Iraq should be easier, but I'm not so sure. There seems to be more anti-American sentiment in Iraq than in Afghanistan.
                          To us, it is the BEAST.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            That's true but they have blown up car bombs in military bases there.
                            Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                            Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                            We've got both kinds

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm not sure there is any connection between Northern Ireland and Iraq,
                              Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
                              Douglas Adams (Influential author)

                              Comment

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