Did someone say FOX News was biased?

[gsmoove23]

JohnT, your arguement wasn't conclusive. Its simply an arguement for reasonable doubt and since I don't find it reasonable to believe a news organization would accidently drop an important part of a text that referred to actually going to the site and finding nothing I would have to say I don't agree with it.

[GePap]

However, on its face, this is ludicrous given the anti-government stance of virtually everyother broadcast news outlet that is also regulated by the FCC.

Krugman's piece is all about ownership (all the netwoekrs, with Fox being only thr far worst, wrapped themselves in the flag). There might be differences in what is emphazised, but all US news networks stick to a very small set of news, and they are NOT nearly as aggressive versus the powers that be as news outlets in many other countries with a free press. Which leads to the point Krugman is making: news in the US is owned privately. In theory then, it should be more trustworthy than a state run service like the BCC< bu the BBC is much more trustworthy, sicne it can keep its news integroty without having to try to gain brownie points with politicans in order to get better deals. Since de-regulation in 1996, more and more of our sources of info are owned by less and less hands, which has degraded the quality, if not quantity, of information.

[gsmoove23]

Ned, he was talking about a larger phenemenon in the country with Fox as the clearest example. He could have also mentioned ClearChannel which has also benefitted greatly by the relaxing of regulations and funded pro-war rallies all across the country, banned the Dixie Chicks, etc...

After reading the Krugman piece I have to say it makes Cavuto's response look pretty damn pitiful. He doesn't even take the time to address any of Krugman's stronger points and just nit-picks at a tiny bit of his arguement. Reminds me of some posters.

He dosesn't even address the more interesting question of why any anchor or editorializer of a news organization would be saying "they are sickening; they sicken me." I've never read or seen an editorial like that on ANY respected media.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Lancer
More people are watching FOX than are watching CNN.



Read em and weep.

More people voted for Gore than for Bush.



Read em and weep.

[Ned]

GePaP, the newspapers are not regulated by the government and therefor should be more free to scutinized it, right. Note that the opinion piece was publiched in the NY Times, a newspaper.

What I do not get, GePap, is how Krugman can single out FOX with an attack that is generic to all FCC-regulated broadcast networks. Krugman never did tie that knot.

[GePap]

He attacked Fox because it is owned BY Newscorp, and Newscorp is the main target for this attack, based on its behavior with the Chinese. If Newscorp is the main target, why then would be he talk about outlets owned by AOL-Time Warner, Disney, GE, and so forth, specially if they are not trying to make deals with govs. like Newscorp is in China?

What Kurgamn is saying is this: when pirvately owned media corporations change their product to appease governments, they degrade the service we get: example, Newscorp oin China, and perhaps now this will happen in the US as well.

And then there is what gsmoove said: calling people "sickening" because they have a different opinion from you is almost slanderous, almost beyond editorial, but not beyond what news outlets trying to pander politically (like stet owned media in places like China) would say.

[Ned]

GePaP, I tend to agree that private news organizations should not agree to be muzzled by governments. Perhaps we can convince Fox to stop dishonest reporting in China if we threatened to pull their plug in the United States. Would you support that? Isn't that what Krugman is advocating?

But, what then do we do about newspapers publishing in China? Do we shut them down too? Should we shut down the New York Times publishing in the United States for example for having a Beijing edition that is censored by Communist Chinese?

Where is Krugman going with this?

[GePap]

But, what then do we do about newspapers publishing in China? Do we shut them down too? Should we shut down the New York Times publishing in the United States for example for having a Beijing edition that is censored by Communist Chinese?

But yuour very point shows the difference: if the NYtomes puts out a China edition (which it does not) and then it [b]gets[/b censopred by the Chinese, then fault lies with the Chinese, sicne they are the ones censoring the truth. But Murodch is self-censoring, to appease the Chinese government and to get access to private broadcasting rights within China. You found CNN;s self-censorship to be terrible in Iarq, and I agree, and that is Krugmans point: when the press censors itself (when it creates its outpot based on political considerations) then the press is compramised, and what he finds strange is that the BBC, a state run service, provides more balanced reporting about their own government (thier bosses) than many private TV sources (I would say all, but PBS, another public one).

[Defiant]

Guy,
That shows the genius of the electoral college and our forefathers in not letting the east coast and west coast run our country, have to give some true voting rights to the little states (you know, we are not just fly over country). The right man won so a double

[Ned]

GePap, I must admit that I do not understand the distinction you are making about self-censorship and censorship. The strory says that Murdock dropped BBC from his Chinese lineup, and stopped publication of a book critical of the Chinese. Is this worse, in your opinion, than a newspaper allowing the Chinese government to review stories before they are published?

I think CNN admitted to the very same thing as Murdock. They did not publish anti-Saddam material while Murdock did not publish anti-Chinese material.

So both are guilty but only one is being attacked by the NY Times. I detect some bias here.

But this does illustrate a general principle. Worldwide news organizations seem to kowtow to dictators. This would seem to indicate that we cannot trust them to be honest in their reporting concerning such dictators. CNN admits it with respect to Saddam and other Arab countries. What does FOX say about China? Do they self-censor?

[gsmoove23]

CNN never admitted to letting the Iraqi government review their articles, or not publishing anti-Saddam material. The only thing they admitted to was not writing about certain acts of cruelty and intimidation to their staff in Baghdad, which would have endangered the lives of those individuals.

The two instances are very different.

[Berzerker]

CyberGnu -

Berzerker, so your position is that since conservatives in the year 2003 has more in common with liberals living in the year 2003 than the founding fathers who lived in 1774, that defines their ideology?

No, it shows where on a left-right spectrum they are - closer to the liberals than people adhering to the Constitution. There are some conservatives who still believe in constitutional limits, but they've mostly formed or joined other political parties, like the Libertarian and Constitutional parties.

What about me then? I have significantly more in common with modern social democrats than I have with king Gustav III - does that make m a socialist?

If social democrats are socialists, then yes. If they aren't, then no. But I would question if there really is a difference between social democrats and monarchs, both presume to have the authority to dictate how others live. The fact a monarch may have this power to himself while social democrats have to share the power with others doesn't matter to me.

Anyway, the point is that you can't really define the ideology by 230 year old standards (unless you interpret "conservative" literally, in which case you can't juxtaposition it with "liberal" anyway).

That 230 year old standard is called the Constitution which is still supposed to be the law of the land, not that liberals and most conservatives care.

[gsmoove23]

Berzerker, get a grip, everyone is following their interpretation of the constitution, as are you.

[Imran Siddiqui]

gsmoove:

Now you started it!! Bezerker believes there is only ONE possible interpretation of the Constitution, and he is one of the few that actually follows (knows?) it.

Watch out for long-ass posts ahead!!

[Defiant]

Berzerker knows his political sh**, you would be wise to listen.