Stupid patriotic Americans

[Az]

Hey, now! She's cute in this pic.

[Spiffor]

Nah, her chin is waaaaaaaay to much in the forefront. Chimp-like feat if you ask me. The rest isn't gorgeous as well, and the poor colour choice makes her really slut-like as well (this red leather pants )

I'm sure any 'patriotic' girl cheering the US troops back in the 1940's was hotter than this

[Az]

What's wrong with slut-like?

"Sluts" are just women that are free about their sexuality.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Azazel
What's wrong with slut-like?

"Sluts" are just women that are free about their sexuality.

I don't know whether "free" is the precisely correct word to use in here.

[Ned]

Originally posted by johncmcleod
Can I get a list of the major evil things our government has done? I know have done a lot of bad stuff but I haven't really researched any of it. The history teachers never talk of it.

Is there anywhere I can get a well structured, not too anti-American paper on why not to go to war with Iraq with all of the reasons and not just some?

Is there something just like that for why we should go to war? I'd like to compare them.

John, I'm really beginning to wonder about you.

[Ned]

Originally posted by johncmcleod


Yeah this one anti-American guy against told me how evil the US because of "US sanctions that killed millions of Iraqis." Those were UN sanction not US sanctions. Der.

Most of the average pro-war ones are way worse though in that regard though. One time I told someone I was against the war and she freaked out talked to me in this really condescending manner and said: "Do you realize Saddam has killed over 2 million of his own people?! His own people!" Those were the sanctions that killed that many. Saddam only killed tens of thousands. I wonder where she got that estimate from. Bush?

John, I have seen estimates that the Ba'ath party has murdered and tortured up to 3 million people since they came to power in the late sixties. Why do you suggest that Saddam has killed and tortured "only" tens of thousands and that the rest died because of "the sanctions." The sanctions did not go into place until 1991. The killing has been going down since the late sixties.

[Az]

Originally posted by Ned


I don't know whether "free" is the precisely correct word to use in here.

would you prefer "open" ?

I am waiting for your suggestions btw.

[Ned]

Senor Llera, I will not go through your long list of propaganda. I shall address just the first item to demostrate that you are so full of comminist "sh!t" as to be completely ignorable.

You said that the CIA installed Pinochet. You cite the Church report as your authority. (Actually Che did this as well not that long ago.) However, the Church committee report concluded that the CIA had nothing to do with Pinochet. Moreover, as soon as his attrocities became known, president Ford cut off military aid. Relations between the US and Pinochet were actually quite hostile.

The CIA's own report also conclude the same.

There is no evidence, save communist propaganda, that the US had anything to do with Pinochet.

[Az]

then what was Powell apologizing for?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Azazel


would you prefer "open" ?

I am waiting for your suggestions btw.

I think the apt term is "promiscuous."

[JCG]

Excessive patriotism, whether it comes from the USA or any other nation is always a bad thing. Self-criticism is healthy, and in the long run helps to improve the country and its people far more than "GO USA" flag-waving does.

[Ted Striker]

Go USA gets the troops (who are risking their lives to keep us safe) to the finish line and back safe and sound.

[Az]

Originally posted by Ned


I think the apt term is "promiscuous."

You say it like it's a bad thing.

[Ned]

JCG, "excessive" anything is not good. We learned this from Aristotle, I believe.

Excessive patriotism, excessive pacifism, excessive self-hatred, excesive anti-Americanism, excessive religious fervor, etc., etc., etc. are all bad - for the same reason.

The question is not whether excessive patriotism is good, but whether American patriotism is good or bad, relatively speaking. The only way to answer this question is to see what America stands for and why most, but clearly not all, Americans are patriotic.

[Senor Llera]

This is too funny:

the CIA had nothing to do with Pinochet. Relations between the US and Pinochet were actually quite hostile.

Have you seen any of the documents the CIA declassfied in 1999??

"CIA Acknowledges Ties to Pinochet’s Repression
Report to Congress Reveals U.S. Accountability in Chile"

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20000919/

Excerpts from the report -

After twenty-seven years of withholding details about covert activities following the 1973 military coup in Chile, the CIA released a report yesterday acknowledging its close relations with General Augusto Pinochet’s violent regime. The report, “CIA Activities in Chile,” revealed for the first time that the head of the Chile’s feared secret police, DINA, was a paid CIA asset in 1975, and that CIA contacts continued with him long after he dispatched his agents to Washington D.C. to assassinate former Chilean Ambassador Orlando Letelier and his 25-year old American associate, Ronni Karpen Moffitt.

According to Peter Kornbluh, director of the National Security Archive’s Chile Documentation Project, the CIA report “represents a major step toward ending the 27-year cover-up of Washington’s covert ties to Pinochet’s brutal dictatorship.” Kornbluh called on the CIA “to take the next step by declassifying all the documents used in the report, including the full declassification of the CIA’s first intelligence report on the Letelier assassination, dated October 6, 1976.”

Within a year of the coup, the CIA was aware of bilateral arrangements between the Pinochet regime and other Southern Cone intelligence services to track and kill opponents—arrangements that developed into Operation Condor.

The CIA made a payment of $35,000 to a group of coup plotters in Chile after that group had murdered the Chilean commander-in-chief, Gen. Rene Schneider in October 1970—a fact that was apparently withheld in 1975 from the special Senate Committee investigating CIA involvement in assassinations. The report says the payment was made “in an effort to keep the prior contact secret, maintain the good will of the group, and for humanitarian reasons.”

The CIA has an October 25, 1973 intelligence report on Gen. Arellano Stark, Pinochet’s right-hand man after the coup, showing that Stark ordered the murders of 21 political prisoners during the now infamous “Caravan of Death.” This document is likely to be relevant to the ongoing prosecution of General Pinochet, who is facing trial for the disappearances of 14 prisoners at the hands of Gen. Stark’s military death squad.

BBC World News - "Chile security chief was CIA informer"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/932897.stm

"US 'undermined Chile's democracy'" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1022347.stm

CNN - "CIA reveals 1970s role with Chilean intelligence chief" http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/americas/09/20/cia.chile/

The Guardian - "CIA files on Pinochet released"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Pinochet_on_trial/Story/0,2763,205061,00.html