Creationists take heed

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


(Exodus 34:12 to 34:26, King James version):

"Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee: But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves: For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice; And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods."

Tell me how I interpret that a different way that doesn't make it amount to horrendous religious bigotry?

I don't see how you can interpret God's commands to the Israelites to slaughter thousands in the name of their moral bigotry ("They are different, kill them")

Look, I'm not saying all religious people would believe this by any means, but if one is (as I stipulated) a fundamentalist who believes the Bible is the Word of God and inerrant, then I don't see how one cannot be a religious and moral bigot, as it explicitly commands people to be such. If you're not, then you're not following the Bible to the letter (which suits me just fine).

Matthew 5:25
Agree thou with thy adversary quickly, whiles though are in a way with him; lest at anytime the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.

Matthew 5:43 - 45
Ye have heard it hath been said. Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you Love thy enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you.
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the unjust and the just.



DIg it.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Sava

Don't laugh at me when I make a really ironic statement...

[Sava]

Originally posted by Fez


Don't laugh at me when I make a really ironic statement...

It wasn't ironic, it was comical because 'Poly is hardly a bastion of logic and fact.

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


*snip* Most people who use the Bible to support their bigoted views make the grave error of ripping a few phrases out of their context. *snip*

I wonder who that applies to here???

[Cruddy]

Dr S, you quotes do represent progress of a sort - we no longer nail people to trees who suggest we edit the Bible (amongst any other crimes they may be accused of).

I have faimily who are Creationists, and I certainly would not deprive them of the comfot and security they gain from there beliefs. I don't agree with them, but it's not a point of dispute.

[BustaMike]

Well I am happy to learn that the second law of thermodynamics does not exist anymore. I learn something new here everyday. It is amazing that atheists will go to such extremes to deny deterioriation.

What does that have to do with anything? Do I have to go quoting MC Hawking again? "The second law is quite specific about where it applies, only in a closed system must the entropy count rise." Now we've learned that the second law also does not apply when a system gets small enough. This hardly disproves the second law, it just adds a condition.

Personally, I think Einstein is wrong in his claim that the speed of light is an impassible barrier.

I won't call you stupid, but I will call you naive. Relativity states that as you speed up, times slows down for you relative to objects at rest. This has been demonstrated by syncronizing two atomic clocks, leaving one in place, and flying the other at 600 mph around the world. When the plane returned, the clock in the plane had lost time... it was slower. Both Enstein's theories and empirical data show that time continues to slow until you reach the speed of light, at which point time will stop completely. Since you cannot accelerate if time isn't moving there's no going any faster. To be more accurate, you can't accelerate to the speed of light at all, you can only get infinitely close to hitting it

[Sava]

I won't call you stupid, but I will call you naive. Relativity states that as you speed up, times slows down for you relative to objects at rest. This has been demonstrated by syncronizing two atomic clocks, leaving one in place, and flying the other at 600 mph around the world. When the plane returned, the clock in the plane had lost time... it was slower. Both Enstein's theories and empirical data show that time continues to slow until you reach the speed of light, at which point time will stop completely. Since you cannot accelerate if time isn't moving there's no going any faster. To be more accurate, you can't accelerate to the speed of light at all, you can only get infinitely close to hitting it.

I'm not discounting the correlation between speed and time. I'm sure there is some difference. I just simply don't believe that's the limit. I also don't think light travels at a constant speed. Is it possible that the increase in G forces due to the acceleration in the atomic clock experiment affected the results? If so, that experiment cannot be effectively relied upon. I don't think it's prudent to rely on an experiment involving 600mph to predict what happens near or at the speed of light.

Einstein was a brilliant man, no doubt, but the brightest minds throughout history aren't perfect.

[BustaMike]

Lol, this is kind of funny. Your reasoning is almost identical to the reasoning of a creationist, whom we both would say it wrong. "Well theres evidence this way... but I just don't believe it."

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Lincoln


I wonder who that applies to here???

I dunno, got any suggestions?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Lincoln
Well I am happy to learn that the second law of thermodynamics does not exist anymore. I learn something new here everyday. It is amazing that atheists will go to such extremes to deny deterioriation. I guess we are all just getting younger and younger!

The point is that the second law of thermodynamics only refers to the energy dynamics of a system, not its structure. There are beaucoup de examples in nature where an increase in structural organization occurs simultaneously with entropy. Take crystalization for instance. Take the growth of any biological entity for instance. If one supposes that evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics, then so does life!

[Sava]

Originally posted by BustaMike
Lol, this is kind of funny. Your reasoning is almost identical to the reasoning of a creationist, whom we both would say it wrong. "Well theres evidence this way... but I just don't believe it."

Not quite... I accept the evidence, and am simply citing we can be sure the results fit for the level of the experiment. I do think time slows down to a certain extent with speed... but I also think things can go faster than light. Human knowledge of high-level physics is still very young. I doubt very much we've got all the answers.

Am I flat out preaching that all should believe Einstein is wrong? No! But you seem to be equating my opinions to this, and you are wrong for doing so. In fact, I'm preaching the opposite. I'm saying we should be open minded and not take things as absolute fact. The day I believe the Speed of Light is the absolute limit is when we try to reach it with a sizable craft or probe. Doing experiments with atomic particles in a particle accelerator is fine and dandy, but I don't think that we should generalize the results to encompass everything.

Plus, the modern experiments and such support Einstein, they don't prove him.

[Elok]

"Creationistical"...
And now "truthicide"?

Make the madness stop, people. Sheesh.

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


The point is that the second law of thermodynamics only refers to the energy dynamics of a system, not its structure. There are beaucoup de examples in nature where an increase in structural organization occurs simultaneously with entropy. Take crystalization for instance. Take the growth of any biological entity for instance. If one supposes that evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics, then so does life!

I for one, do not believe that evolution violates any law including the second law of thermodynamics. The whole idea that some creationists put forth, that order cannot arise in nature is almost as absurd as the belief of some that the laws of physics can produce specified information without intelligent input.

My only argument here is that the second law of thermodynamics has not been overturned and that deterioriation in nature is still a fact. There is no magical law of physics that allows for the creation of the information-based machinery of life. BTW, the posted article does not claim that there is, so I wonder why UR titled this thread the way he did. This is certainly no threat to intelligent design.

[Kuciwalker]

Where did God come from then? He is "specified information without intelligent input". Belief that there must be an ultimate creator is a paradox.

[Lincoln]

How do you figure that God is not intelligent? And it is a paradox, but that does not make it false.