Should Stalin apologists be treated in the same way as Nazi sympathisers

[Az]

Well, Stalin was different. I wouldn't call him better. But Hitler did start WWII.

[Al B. Sure!]

you could easily say that David Lloyd George and Clemenceu and their insistance on destroying the German economy in the Versailles treaty started the second world war.

[Az]

I can also say that Hitler's biological father, and mother started the war.

BUT I WON'T.

[Ned]

There are no Stalin apologizers. Right?

[David Floyd]

You are seriously sick mister. You’re saying that ideology that says that some «inferior» nationalities/races should be completely exterminated is as bad as ideology that says that people of all nationalities have equal rights and equal opportunities? For first ideology it’s absolutely natural and OK to burn children of “inferior” nationalities alive, while it is never, not even a close OK for second ideology.

Nazism and socialism are equally bad in that both want to deny me my natural rights - specifically, my liberty and my property, and in some cases, my life.

It's hard to see how one can be worse than the other. Oh, granted, maybe socialists today don't kill people in the name of socialism (well, I'm sure the Chinese still do it), but then again, Neo-Nazis haven't made much headway wiping out an entire race, either. Not that Neo-Nazis are good, but the point is socialism is no better.

[Sava]

you could easily say that David Lloyd George and Clemenceu and their insistance on destroying the German economy in the Versailles treaty started the second world war.

and if my car had wings it would fly... I wonder, I should ask my grandfather if David Lloyd George and Clemenceu machined gunned over 500 people in a little village outside of Kragujevic. Or better yet, let's reconvene in Nuremburg to prosecute those two for the murder of millions of all "undesirables". Oh wait, those are all fabrications right? The Nazis never hurt anyone.

[Sava]

Nazism and socialism are equally bad in that both want to deny me my natural rights - specifically, my liberty and my property, and in some cases, my life.

It's hard to see how one can be worse than the other. Oh, granted, maybe socialists today don't kill people in the name of socialism (well, I'm sure the Chinese still do it), but then again, Neo-Nazis haven't made much headway wiping out an entire race, either. Not that Neo-Nazis are good, but the point is socialism is no better.

[Az]

How can one deny Rights that are natu...... OH NO, No way you're ruining another perfectly good thread, David!

[David Floyd]

Then again, David Lloyd George and Clemenceau weren't exactly the most moral of fellows either.

[David Floyd]

How can one deny Rights that are natu......

One can refuse to protect them, and abrogate them through force, obviously.

[Az]

And I wouldn't even Start talking about FDR, that SOCIALIST WARMONGER.

Ok, I'll stop poking fun at libertarianism. As long as I won't convince you it is wrong ethically, There is no point in doing so, and since you believe it has to do so.......... CRAP you're doing it again, using your evil voodoo powers to turn this thread into a Libertarianism thread? well, no way, Jose!

[David Floyd]

I'm doing no such thing. I'm not making this a Libertarian thread any more than the people who went from Stalinism to socialism are making this a socialist thread. I, like them, am simply posting my opinion. We don't have to talk about my opinion - unless you have some need to debate with me, because I don't really care.

[Az]

That's fine. Neither do I.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
We have Serb here but he really isn't an apologist for Stalin so much as a person who likes saying that Hitler was worse. That's debatable (purposefully engineering a famine in the Ukraine for no reason puts him pretty high up there) but it is a somewhat reasonable position to stake out.

Originally posted by Oerdin
DD: Oh, Stalin had a reason for engineering a mass famine amoung the farmers. Namely, the farmers weren't supporting his regime so he starved them to death.

Actually, there was a reason aside from the hostility of the farmers to the 'system'. They took the grain from the Ukraine to buy industrial equipment.

That is what is so chilling about Stalin and many other communists who have gotten into a position to further the revolution... They often hate any who do not agree, and find it quite good to enslave or murder those with differing ideologies. Now, that's not racism and genocide, but I can't see the big difference between the extermination of a race and the extermination of a class or all those who believe differently than you. That's why I can't see a big difference between Communism and Nazism.

btw, Communists may well be socialists, but not all Socialists are communist. Think poodles and dogs.

[Jeltz]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Nazism and socialism are equally bad in that both want to deny me my natural rights - specifically, my liberty and my property, and in some cases, my life.

It's hard to see how one can be worse than the other. Oh, granted, maybe socialists today don't kill people in the name of socialism (well, I'm sure the Chinese still do it), but then again, Neo-Nazis haven't made much headway wiping out an entire race, either. Not that Neo-Nazis are good, but the point is socialism is no better.

Your use of that word makes baby Jesus cry.

Short definitions I found from a website:
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Socialism and Democracy: Limited government interference in business activity, but more than in capitalism. Certain areas of an individual's life are controlled and representation tend to be parliamentary in nature. In other words, people vote for a particular party and the party elects the leaders of the country. The notable difference here is that there is MORE THAN one party.

Socialism and Communism: Severe government interference in economics, but not absolute. Centralized planning by the government, ONE PARTY rule, and stresses that there should be only one class of people. This differs from Socialism/Democracy which allows for individual differences.
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So socialism doesn't necessarily deny you your natural rights.