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  • Citizen oversight of the police? Good or Bad?

    Abuse Accusations Plague Key West Police Department
    By NICK MADIGAN


    KEY WEST, Fla., April 30 — The messages appeared a few days ago, stuck to the otherwise cheerful windows of stores selling T-shirts and paintings of blue, grinning dolphins.

    "If you do not resist being cuffed by Key West cops," one of the handwritten signs said, "you may be giving up your final chance."

    Another used an expletive to insult people who felt safe under the protection of the police. A third recalled the Nazis in referring to the beating of a handcuffed sailor.

    Accusations that Key West officers have acted with excessive force over the last few years have tainted the reputation of the police department and cast a shadow over a town better known for its tropical charm and an air of unabashed, rum-fueled hedonism.

    One former officer, Michael Beerbower, is to stand trial on May 19 on charges that he punched a sailor he had handcuffed outside a bar. Another officer was accused of pepper-spraying a suspect who was offering no resistance, a third reportedly beat a man with a baton, and two more officers were accused of falsifying reports about the beating.

    Mr. Beerbower's is the only case to come to trial, but he and three of the other officers accused of wrongdoing have left the police force.

    Most of these cases came to light in a two-year investigation by the Monroe County state attorney's office, which found that the department had failed to act upon, or even look into, some of the accusations against its officers.

    "I don't think it's a department out of control," said Catherine Vogel, chief assistant state attorney for Monroe County, who will prosecute Mr. Beerbower. "It needed a wake-up call."

    Last fall, after months of lobbying by a group of residents, voters here approved a measure to create a citizens' board to review complaints against the Key West Police Department. The process of choosing board members has already begun, said City Manager Julio Avael, who, along with Police Chief Gordon Dillon, had initially resisted the notion of citizen oversight of the police.

    "There were some problems with the police department that we needed to address, and it was addressed," Mr. Avael said in an interview.

    Sandra Butler Whyte, a resident who was a vigorous advocate of the citizens' review board, described "a real level of anxiety and mistrust in this community." She said, "There have been many, many cases of abuse, especially against minorities, that we haven't heard about."

    The litany of complaints against officers is long. Four were suspended after shooting at a couple who were fleeing the police on Front Street, on the city's waterfront, in July 2001. The police chief and the city manager later overturned the suspensions, calling the policy on shooting in public places ambiguous.

    One of the officers in the Front Street case was Sgt. Eric Biskup, who was accused of battering a tourist with his baton later that month, on July 29, 2001. Sergeant Biskup said at the time that he had resorted to the baton after the man tried to tackle him during a street brawl in front of Sloppy Joe's Bar.

    Investigators from the state attorney's office found, based on accounts of bystanders and other officers, that two of the officers at the scene, Patrick Saunders and Geoffrey Harris, had falsified incident reports to cover up the circumstances of the melee. Both of those men left the force. Sergeant Biskup, the only accused officer still working in the department, attended counseling sessions as part of his deal with prosecutors to keep his job.

    Chief Dillon said that Sergeant Biskup had been "picked up and slammed to the ground" in the Sloppy Joe's incident and that he had responded appropriately.

    But the chief acknowledged, "We've had a couple of bad incidents."

    One involved Lt. Al Flowers, who resigned last year after the state attorney's office found that in 1998 he had told a subordinate to falsify the record of an arrest in which he pepper-sprayed a man who was offering no resistance.

    No one disputes that the 85 police officers in Key West, which attracts hundreds of thousands of visitors a year, have their hands full. The town's main thoroughfare, Duval Street, boasts dozens of bars, clubs and restaurants, most of which do a thriving business until the 4 a.m. closing time. A spring-break atmosphere prevails, especially on weekends, and loud carousing often spills into the narrow streets.
    "Early in the morning on Duval Street, my guys sometimes go from one fight to another," Chief Dillon said. "There's too much alcohol and too many people in one small area."

    Ms. Vogel, the assistant state attorney, said the department had made "great strides" in correcting its problems.

    "Unfortunately, it took us filing charges for that to occur," she said.
    The ways of Man are passing strange, he buys his freedom and he counts his change.
    Then he lets the wind his days arrange and he calls the tide his master.

  • #2
    cue Floyd with rant about how you should shoot all police officers who even stop you for questioning in 5...4...3...2...



    Opposition to Police brutality should be done on an individualized and LEGAL basis, through the courts. It is unfair to generalize that all cops are out to cause you bodily harm or abuse their power. We entrust our officers with the ability to do their jobs effectively, and we must keep that trust in them for them to do their jobs properly. If a bad apple or two come along and don't play by the rules, they will be punished accordingly.
    "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
    You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

    "I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui

    Comment


    • #3
      Cops are supposed to do their jobs. If they stop you for one or two questions, fine. But they shouldn't use excessive force. In Buenos Aires, that is a problem. The cops seem to think they are superior and there are a lot of problems because of that. And this type of behavior is even promoted in the department.
      For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

      Comment


      • #4
        OK so we have a start here - Orange belives that Citizen oversight is not "LEGAL"
        The ways of Man are passing strange, he buys his freedom and he counts his change.
        Then he lets the wind his days arrange and he calls the tide his master.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by orange
          Opposition to Police brutality should be done on an individualized and LEGAL basis, through the courts. It is unfair to generalize that all cops are out to cause you bodily harm or abuse their power. We entrust our officers with the ability to do their jobs effectively, and we must keep that trust in them for them to do their jobs properly. If a bad apple or two come along and don't play by the rules, they will be punished accordingly.
          Well said.
          "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

          Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

          Comment


          • #6
            Police brutality should be met with force. If a cop is beating you with a nightstick for no reason, pull your handgun out and shoot him. If a cop pepper sprays you for no reason, do the same.

            After all, if anyone else was assaulting you with a weapon, and they were also armed with a firearm, no court would convict you for using a gun to protect yourself.

            I'm not saying shoot cops for pulling you over. I'm saying that in the case of police brutality, shooting back is perfectly fine.

            Now, you can make arguments that this will get you killed, and those are valid arguments, but they don't detract from the principle.
            Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
            Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Orange belives that Citizen oversight is not "LEGAL"
              I never said that...I said it is almost always unwarranted.

              Police brutality should be met with force. If a cop is beating you with a nightstick for no reason, pull your handgun out and shoot him. If a cop pepper sprays you for no reason, do the same.

              After all, if anyone else was assaulting you with a weapon, and they were also armed with a firearm, no court would convict you for using a gun to protect yourself.

              I'm not saying shoot cops for pulling you over. I'm saying that in the case of police brutality, shooting back is perfectly fine.

              Now, you can make arguments that this will get you killed, and those are valid arguments, but they don't detract from the principle.
              Did I call it or what?

              Floyd, since when is shooting someone a proper response to being mased?
              "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
              You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

              "I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui

              Comment


              • #8
                This is a bad idea for two main reasons:

                1) The people on the revisory board will now think that they can get away with anything because they could terminate the employment of anybody pulling them over.

                2 and more importantly) No one would want to be Police Officers anymore and the one we have would want to quit. Anarchy would reign (yeah, I know, not immediately). I am speaking with the opinion of someone who is an officer. Yes the police need supervision, but to continually add regulations and layer after layer of supervision because of a few head cases will NOT help. Actually it will help, but it will only help the criminals.
                Founder of The Glory of War, CHAMPIONS OF APOLYTON!!!
                '92 & '96 Perot, '00 & '04 Bush, '08 & '12 Obama, '16 Clinton, '20 Biden, '24 Harris

                Comment


                • #9
                  oversight is always a good thing.

                  now if the U.N. would just allow oversight. I want to know where all that money has gone...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Touche' Diss, touche'
                    ____________________________
                    "One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996
                    "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu
                    ____________________________

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ontario Canada has had a civilian revue board for many years now, and the system works just fine. It gets involved automatically if any officer uses a firearm in the line of duty, and can be called in to investigate any other complaint. There was opposition from the police at first, but the two bodies now have a basically good relationship. And there's never been a case of a board member misusing his/her position; if it's done right, that simply can't happen.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You know I prefer to have heavily armed police like what I see here in Argentina... sure.. but these police should take sensitivity courses or something. I see way too many submachine guns.. street cops have here... I mean... what gives? Any Argentine here will testify to that too.
                        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Checks and balances make Democracy work. The second you get rid of accountability and oversight, you get a totalitarian state.
                          To us, it is the BEAST.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            All school bullies become cops so their power can be legalised. If a cop if beating your ass, resist. I don't know about pulling a gun and shooting him (because killing someone takes a lot of strength) but if you find a handy metal chair, or metal bar, or mace, or fallen signpost nearby, use it. And yeah, there should be civilians with cameras followin the po's around everywhere and videotaping the arrests. That way, if the cops get too 'carried away' they can get indicted.
                            "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by donegeal
                              This is a bad idea for two main reasons:

                              1) The people on the revisory board will now think that they can get away with anything because they could terminate the employment of anybody pulling them over.
                              An advisory board has the same legal restraints on the way it handles employees as any other entity. If it unjustly fires someone that person has the option of a legal remedy. A couple of successful lawsuits resulting in generous compensation of the agrieved will sober up any committee.
                              2 and more importantly) No one would want to be Police Officers anymore and the one we have would want to quit. Anarchy would reign (yeah, I know, not immediately). I am speaking with the opinion of someone who is an officer. Yes the police need supervision, but to continually add regulations and layer after layer of supervision because of a few head cases will NOT help. Actually it will help, but it will only help the criminals.
                              If this is the case, that the police, who are a civilian agency anyway, can not tolerate civilian supervision, then we need to review who the police force is hiring. I'd like to think that the people who go for police work should have at least a little idealism vis a vis the role of the police officer in a democratic system. For the life of me I can't understand why cops seem to feel obligated to give their unquestioning support to fellow officers who turn rogue. I would think that a good cop would have more interest in seeing a rogue officer punished than the average citizen, since the rogue cop erodes community trust and diminishes the good cops prestige. Instead it appears that their fellow officers will bend over backwards to excuse them even to the point of condoning outright murder. You don't think that the public's feelings about such incidents make your job more difficult?
                              "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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