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  • Stop

    There are good ways of running a country and bad ways, both sides (at least in America) seem to be more interested in finger pointing and emotional attachment to every issue, than using politics to make a better society. Contrast this with:


    When a Liberal and Conservative get in a car, and one turns the key, they are usually in agreeement on whether the car starts or not, why can't politics be the same? Political discussions are based on differences, but yet both sides do have shared interests.

    Here is my attempt to come up with minimalist principles:

    Around 1999, Pat Buchanann said Hitler wasn't all that bad, and left and right were outraged.Then I came up with some Universal Truths that 99% of Americans agree on:
    1)Hitler was bad
    2)Slavery was bad
    3)Free Speech is good

    This may not seem like much, but computers are built on
    0's 1's and these operations: AND,OR,NOT

    why can't we build on our common agreements -
    especially #3. Most Liberals and Conservatives seem to accept every position their political persuasion has without an openess to other views.I've learned the hard way that some of the institutions of the left are also corrupt, but I get nasty looks when I say that to my liberal friends. As Billy Joel said, "Honestly is such a lonely word." Why can't there be a technology of social ideas be developed through reason instead of stuck in the blame game?

  • #2
    Let me say one thing: If you put liberals and conservatives in a room and lock the door, you will hear fighting (with the fists) and people trying to strangle each other...

    That is called partisan politics.
    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

    Comment


    • #3
      Fez, exactly why everything is so messed up.

      Comment


      • #4
        not necessarily...
        "mono has crazy flow and can rhyme words that shouldn't, like Eminem"
        Drake Tungsten
        "get contacts, get a haircut, get better clothes, and lose some weight"
        Albert Speer

        Comment


        • #5
          I have developped my own example for my country.

          A left-wing and a right-wing stand in front the men's room. But both try to let the other one not in, because the expect (and rightly so) that as soon one is in, he will slam the door shut and lock it. Then laugh. So, both stand outside of the Men's room and p in their trousers.

          The problem is, having only "liberal" or "conservative" is a bad idea. If their would be more groups of opinion, they wouldn't start to hate eachother so much. If their would be 12 parties, all had a lot more possibilities do agree or disagree.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Stop

            Originally posted by realpolitic
            why can't we build on our common agreements
            'Cause they're wrong and we're right. Why should we concede our principles to evil?
            Världsstad - Dom lokala genrenas vän
            Mick102, 102,3 Umeå, Måndagar 20-21

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            • #7
              parties are the death of democracy.
              B♭3

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              • #8
                Far from it. Parties are the start of proper democracy, with a real choice of ideology. In a non-party system only wishy-washy centrists are ever elected...
                Världsstad - Dom lokala genrenas vän
                Mick102, 102,3 Umeå, Måndagar 20-21

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Fez
                  Let me say one thing: If you put liberals and conservatives in a room and lock the door, you will hear fighting (with the fists) and people trying to strangle each other...

                  That is called partisan politics.
                  Fez, some of my best friends are leftists. Some people who I have really dislked have been rightists. It is foolish to judge a person on the basis of being a liberal or a conservative.
                  "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

                  "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Why can't there be a technology of social ideas be developed through reason instead of stuck in the blame game?
                    The basic reason lies in the foundation of argumentation. Basically, you and I could, theoretically, build two completely opposite arguments, and each could be considered equally good.

                    Why is this? Essentially because the value of any argument is in the eye of the beholder. What I hold to be a valid premise may differ significantly from your view. Also, because there are so many different angles from which to argue a given point, we could even have equally valid arguments with different conclusions, and then be forced to decide which angle has greater implications.

                    Just my $0.02.
                    "Beauty is not in the face...Beauty is a light in the heart." - Kahlil Gibran
                    "The greatest happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved; loved for ourselves, or rather, loved in spite of ourselves" - Victor Hugo
                    "It is noble to be good; it is still nobler to teach others to be good -- and less trouble." - Mark Twain

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                    • #11
                      More than that, the very language and thought-patterns we use are likely to be way different. We can't see the other person's argument because to them, each central concept means something else in a purely emotional way.
                      Världsstad - Dom lokala genrenas vän
                      Mick102, 102,3 Umeå, Måndagar 20-21

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Stop

                        The reason that the two parties end up bickering is because some selfish bastard calls the other side "selfish bastards" and because of honor the other side has to call the other side selfish bastards and because of honor the other side has to call the other side selfish bastards and because of honor the other side has to call the other side selfish bastards and because of honor the other side has to call the other side selfish bastards and because of honor the other side has to call the other side selfish bastards and because of honor the other side has to call the other side selfish bastards and because of honor the other side has to call the other side selfish bastards and because of honor the other side has to call the other side selfish bastards and because of honor the other side has to call the other side selfish bastards and because of honor the other side has to call the other side selfish bastards and because of honor the other side has to call the 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                        Do you understand now?
                        Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
                        Long live teh paranoia smiley!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Shi Huangdi


                          Fez, some of my best friends are leftists. Some people who I have really dislked have been rightists. It is foolish to judge a person on the basis of being a liberal or a conservative.
                          I was talking about political partisans.. I wasn't generalizing.
                          For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Re: Stop

                            Which is why Poly debate rarely ever go anywhere. People get so caught up in "I cant be wrong or Ill look bad!" that they can't think rationally and even when they can, they intentionally argue the wrong cause so that they dont lose any honor.
                            Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
                            Long live teh paranoia smiley!

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                            • #15
                              Far from it. Parties are the start of proper democracy, with a real choice of ideology. In a non-party system only wishy-washy centrists are ever elected...



                              No wonder are politicans usually recruited from the scum of the earth. It's the electors fault.

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