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  • Apolyton Fantasy Book Club Nominations

    We can't let the sci-fi people have all the fun can we? Also, us college students are either done or almost done so we shold have time to get down to reading some good brick-sized fantasy books. I'll set up a voting thread for a book of the month after I get a good number of nominations.

    After thinking about A Game of Thrones by George Martin I've decided to go with Black Sun Rising by C.S. Friedman, since its works better as a stand-alone despite being the first book of a trilogy.

    Black Sun Rising has two things going for it, world building and character building. The world of Erna is a nicely-built place which is dark without being annoyingly Goth. The main driving force is the fae which is one of the better attempts to build magic that is a natural force that follows rules that make sense. Equally interesting is how the fae interacts with the human subconscious which results in all the nasty critters in Erna being the result of the dark side of the human psyche.
    One result of all this is Black Sun Rising is one of the few bits of fantasy in which religion isn't some kind of hazy Deism, an evil maiden-sacrificing cult or a mere rip-off of medieval Catholicism. Basically since magic in Black Sun Rising is responsive to human will, faith has concrete power and the whole point of religion is to tame magic and make Erna more like a vaguely-remembered Earth. So its nice to see religion that actually makes sense in a fantasy context.
    But what really makes the book its characters, specifically Gerald Tarrant, who's the best-realized representative of the intelligent/"fallen"/sauve/cold/aristocratic/amoral/nasty anti-hero cliche that I can remember reading, especially since there's interesting psychological conflicts with no angsty self-pity or whiny moping, which is a massive relief and makes him fun to read about.

    The concept that the world is based around and the interesting character(s) easily make up for Black Sun Rising's flaws, but there are a few. Motivations for a pivotal choice or two are a little hazy, the dialogue could've been a little less stilted, the plotting isn't the best I've ever seen and the "bad guy" isn't quite fleshed out enough (more of that comes in the sequels I think). But overall, its well worth reading since its an intelligent bit of work and does a lot of good conceptual reworking of fantasy stocks of trade. Highly recommended.
    Stop Quoting Ben

  • #2
    Has it got a map in it? And a glossary?

    If it has, I'm not reading it.
    The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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    • #3
      no map, no glossay
      Stop Quoting Ben

      Comment


      • #4
        And y'all. or someone at least, didn't like The Belgariad series by Eddings?

        I thought it was really funny.
        Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
        "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
        He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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        • #5
          I've read one book and twenty pages of Eddings, which was enough to make me decide it was utter crap.

          Anyway, I'll nominate Robin Hobb's "Assassin's Apprentice". It was great, I loved the plot, and it manages to avoid many stupid fantasy cliches. It has a map but no glossary.
          "Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
          "That’s the future of the Democratic Party: providing Republicans with a number of cute (but not that bright) comfort women." - Adam Yoshida, Canada's gift to the world

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          • #6
            Utter crap, but you people are mandating pictures.

            There you have it, I'm not sophisticated enough to hang with some of you.

            No comments, thank-you.
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Apolyton Fantasy Book Club Nominations

              Originally posted by Boshko
              We can't let the sci-fi people have all the fun can we? Also, us college students are either done or almost done so we shold have time to get down to reading some good brick-sized fantasy books. I'll set up a voting thread for a book of the month after I get a good number of nominations.

              After thinking about A Game of Thrones by George Martin I've decided to go with Black Sun Rising by C.S. Friedman, since its works better as a stand-alone despite being the first book of a trilogy.

              Black Sun Rising has two things going for it, world building and character building. The world of Erna is a nicely-built place which is dark without being annoyingly Goth. The main driving force is the fae which is one of the better attempts to build magic that is a natural force that follows rules that make sense. Equally interesting is how the fae interacts with the human subconscious which results in all the nasty critters in Erna being the result of the dark side of the human psyche.
              One result of all this is Black Sun Rising is one of the few bits of fantasy in which religion isn't some kind of hazy Deism, an evil maiden-sacrificing cult or a mere rip-off of medieval Catholicism. Basically since magic in Black Sun Rising is responsive to human will, faith has concrete power and the whole point of religion is to tame magic and make Erna more like a vaguely-remembered Earth. So its nice to see religion that actually makes sense in a fantasy context.
              But what really makes the book its characters, specifically Gerald Tarrant, who's the best-realized representative of the intelligent/"fallen"/sauve/cold/aristocratic/amoral/nasty anti-hero cliche that I can remember reading, especially since there's interesting psychological conflicts with no angsty self-pity or whiny moping, which is a massive relief and makes him fun to read about.

              The concept that the world is based around and the interesting character(s) easily make up for Black Sun Rising's flaws, but there are a few. Motivations for a pivotal choice or two are a little hazy, the dialogue could've been a little less stilted, the plotting isn't the best I've ever seen and the "bad guy" isn't quite fleshed out enough (more of that comes in the sequels I think). But overall, its well worth reading since its an intelligent bit of work and does a lot of good conceptual reworking of fantasy stocks of trade. Highly recommended.
              I am looking for the third book in this serries

              it is surprisling interesting

              Jon Miller
              Jon Miller-
              I AM.CANADIAN
              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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              • #8
                copycat thread...

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                • #9
                  copycat thread...
                  Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery...

                  didn't like The Belgariad series by Eddings?
                  Read them a looong time ago. Tried reading some other Eddings stuff recently but the characters are too flat and the good guys far too invincible for it to be enjoyable.

                  Stefu: Have heard a lot of good stuff about Hobb, will have to track it down some time this summer.
                  Stop Quoting Ben

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                  • #10
                    Please do. I'm not as much into fantasy as I'm in sci-fi and particularily alternative history (hm, could alt. hist merit a book club of it's own?), but I loved the Assassin series (couldn't really get into those liveship books, though). The third book isn't as good as the first two (particularily the second), though, but it's still great.
                    "Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
                    "That’s the future of the Democratic Party: providing Republicans with a number of cute (but not that bright) comfort women." - Adam Yoshida, Canada's gift to the world

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      couldn't really get into those liveship books, though
                      Yeah, flipped through those in the library, didn't grab me. Have been having a really hard time getting into fantasy books since reading George Martin, since I just can't stand authors of the David Eddings/Robert Jordan/Terry Goodkind/Terry Brooks/etc. etc. vein any more

                      Also was very very tempted to nominate The Pheonix Guard by Steven Brust which is a joy to read since all the dialogue is pure Three Musketeers and the narrator's hilarious vorbose pomposity steals the show. Only problem is the setting is a little confusing if you haven't read the Vlad Taltos books.
                      Stop Quoting Ben

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                      • #12
                        Boshko, George Martin is quite good, indeed. As for Eddings, well, you just have to read the names of the characters at the back of the book to know the story: "So the good guy who is going to save the world with his merry companions is named..."
                        I liked Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy. Although it is a bit big and the ending may be a bit long to read, the book remains both original and traditional. Plus there are many good guys who die.
                        Clash of Civilization team member
                        (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
                        web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

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                        • #13
                          If you're actually serious about this, I'll nominate one.

                          "Curse of the Mistwraith" by Janny Wurts.

                          It's the first in a series, but that's good. I like epic fantasy, and she's one of the few doing it these days (her and George R. R. Martin) with good results.

                          On the splinter world of Dascen Elur, two kingdoms have been at war for generations. The heirs to the thrones of these kingdoms, half-brothers by chance, are carrying on the battle begun by their forebears. Lysaer, light of hair and fair of bearing, born to riches and raised to inherit the crown, blessed with the Gift of Light. Arithon, with dark hair and bearing upon his shoulders the need to engage in continued piracy of the seas to support his people even through his Mastery of Shadow and magery.

                          Through a series of events, these two find themselves in a strange land, swaddled so in mist that not even the sun can pierce the ever present dampening gloom. A gloom that has lasted five hundred years and divided the people into townsmen and clan barbarians.

                          Into all of this comes the West Gate prophecy made by Dakar the Mad Prophet. Two shall come through the West Gate and by combining their powers shall defeat the Mistwraith and return sunlight to Athera.

                          So begins Curse of the Mistwraith, a story of deep, thought stirring events. Janny Wurts has crafted a masterful tale of wizards and enchantresses, of love and hate, of war and death. This is a book that should be savored slowly. Ms. Wurts utilizes a method of combining large chapter like sections that allow you to immerse yourself in this world of her creation with short triplets that give you necessary images that will reflect in greater depth later in the tale. Rushing through the pages will leave you without the necessary framework to truly appreciate the climactic ending of this first volume. An ending that will leave you speechless, nay breathless.
                          The author does her own cover art too.

                          Wraith
                          "Power without wisdom eventually destroys itself. This sorcerer is old beyond estimate."
                          -- Arithon ("Curse of the Mistwraith")
                          Attached Files

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                          • #14
                            Stefu, Is that 'Varkaiden Paratiisi' ? If so, I have iiiiiit!

                            edit: it's probably not. Sorry.
                            In da butt.
                            "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                            THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                            "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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                            • #15
                              I recommend the Serpentwar saga by Raymond Feist. Mich better and more involved than his previous efforts.

                              Curs of the Mistwraith and the Assassin books are good too.

                              Also, Luck in the Shadows by Lynn Flewelling is a good read, as are the two sequels.

                              I assume Flewelling is a woman, because I don't recall a man writing about main male characters that are homosexual.

                              Also, the Seer King by Chris Bunch.

                              ACK!
                              Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust!

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