gs, MacArthur actually was proposing a radioactive barrier between China and DPRK. Still a bad idea however.
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"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003
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Originally posted by Ted Striker
What (who) are you doing?
(and thats all i have to say on this thread, after reading the whole friggin thing...)"I bet Ikarus eats his own spunk..."
- BLACKENED from America's Army: Operations
Kramerman - Creator and Author of The Epic Tale of Navalon in the Civ III Stories Forum
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Originally posted by gsmoove23
Ned, your Cambodia link refers to 1998 and you damn well know that just because Clinton supported doesn't change the fact that it was a UN peacekeeping force that went in. Clinton supported the UN and was the president of a member state, so whats your point. This is exactly what I'm saying, when you want to attack the UN any UN success is suddenly a US success and all UN failures the US supposedly had nothing to do with.
As for your post about MacArthur he was making incredibly inflamatory statements about using nukes in NK and expanding the war to China and Russia. His worries about being able to shell and chase fighters over the border were more to expand the conflict then anything else. I'm a little worried that your idea of the correct prosecution of a war is leaving it in the hands of a maniac with little thought for diplomacy.
As to the "inflammatory statements," everything else he said was approved by the Joint Chiefs and by Truman. This is the one thing he said that was not approved.
The only recent link to the upcoming July 2003 elections was a public declaration by one of the Cambodia parties calling for free elections.
Now, why in the world would a polictical party in a "democracy" makes such a plea?
The so-called democracy in Cambodia is a sham. Sihanouk is still king after all these years and he still had a contract with the devil.http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
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Say what you will, but the UN has been actively involved in trying to foster democratic elections in Cambodia for many years now without the luxury of a massive military occupation. These efforts are being carried out in any number of places where world opinion couldn't give enough of a **** to send two bucks.
As for MacArthur, the official reason for his removal is a sham. Truman was well aware he was a fool and it was dangerous to have him in power. His inflammatory remarks were hardly the only foolish things he said and were hardl isolated incidents. However, the myth surrounding him made him difficult to attack at the time, Truman had already decided to remove him when MacArthur simply gave hime the excuse.
According to the official record, MacArthur got busted for publicly objecting to not being able to pursue the enemy into China and not being able to attack his bases there - even after the Chinese had invaded!
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Originally posted by gsmoove23
Say what you will, but the UN has been actively involved in trying to foster democratic elections in Cambodia for many years now without the luxury of a massive military occupation. These efforts are being carried out in any number of places where world opinion couldn't give enough of a **** to send two bucks.
As for MacArthur, the official reason for his removal is a sham. Truman was well aware he was a fool and it was dangerous to have him in power. His inflammatory remarks were hardly the only foolish things he said and were hardl isolated incidents. However, the myth surrounding him made him difficult to attack at the time, Truman had already decided to remove him when MacArthur simply gave hime the excuse.
The events that followed chinese entry into the war proved the ridiculousness of MacArthur's complaints. US forces in the area were not able to handle the concerted Chinese response that followed. As it was, the Chinese held back considerably in their prosecution of the war, further provocation would have only brought about greater disaster.
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Militarially speaking the Inchon landing was a spectacular success which resulted in nearly the entire North Korean Army being cut off and eventually killed or captured. After that the UN forces rushed all the way to Manchuria... which is when the communist Chinese invaded.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.
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Inchon was a brilliant move, but the following advance was not tempered by reason(partly the fault of Truman). One brilliant move doesn't change the fact that the man was a raving lunatic and imagined winning a global war against Russia and China. China made it quite clear what it would do if US forces overstepped their bounds and they did. No one should have been surprised, what was surprising is they held back as much as they did and the Russians didn't get involved.
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MacAurthor didn't make one brilliant move his carreer from WW1 through the Korean War is one brilliant move after another. BTW the Soviets had quite a falling out with Mao and they made it very clear, in privite, that if they picked a fight a fight in Korea then they were on their own. In 1950 the Soviets were in no position to wage another world war and they sure as hell weren't going to let the Chinese drag them into one.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.
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Originally posted by gsmoove23
China made it quite clear what it would do if US forces overstepped their bounds and they did. No one should have been surprised, what was surprising is they held back as much as they did and the Russians didn't get involved.
"In retrospect the events on the battlefield in late October and early November 1950 were harbingers of disaster ahead. They had been foreshadowed by ominous "signals" from China, signals relayed to the United States through Indian diplomatic channels. The Chinese, it was reported, would not tolerate a U.S. presence so close to their borders and would send troops to Korea if any UN forces other than ROK elements crossed the 38th Parallel. With the United States seeking to isolate Communist China diplomatically, there were very few ways to verify these warnings. While aware of some of the dangers, U.S. diplomats and intelligence personnel, especially General MacArthur, discounted the risks. The best time for intervention was past, they said, and even if the Chinese decided to intervene, allied air power and firepower would cripple their ability to move or resupply their forces. The opinion of many military observers, some of whom had helped train the Chinese to fight against the Japanese in World War II, was that the huge infantry forces that could be put in the field would be poorly equipped, poorly led, and abysmally supplied. These "experts" failed to give full due to the revolutionary zeal and military experience of many of the Chinese soldiers that had been redeployed to the Korean border area. Many of the soldiers were confident veterans of the successful civil war against the Nationalist Chinese forces. Although these forces were indeed poorly supplied, they were highly motivated, battle hardened, and led by officers who were veterans, in some cases, of twenty years of nearly constant war."http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
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