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Are we really liberators? US Troops break up Saddam birthday party in Tikrit.

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  • #31
    This is like arguing with a brick wall... what is your point Tass? The Nazi Party was outlawed from holding meetings and rallies in Germany, as should the Baath Party in Iraq.

    You are completely delusional and quite ignorant.
    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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    • #32
      To suggest anything else is irresponsible.
      Correct, however this will only make the situation more UNSTABLE. Because then the Iraqis will begin to hate us because "They wont even allow a birthday party!!! And they claim they are not invaders......".

      We need to grant them FREEDOMS first, not just say "Well, you lived under a dictatorship for so many years......Whats a few more months?". Thats irresponsible.

      We obviously can.
      Yes, but its not moral and simply adds evidence to the fact that we are not restoring iraqi freedoms.

      Tass, you have problems.
      Oh fez, I thought you got over your ad hominem problems......Guess not.

      is under martial law for the time being as there is still hostilities.
      So does that properly justify giving freedom of speech only to select Iraqis?
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      • #33
        So does that properly justify giving freedom of speech only to select Iraqis?
        Martial Law = Means all possible security threats must be kept under control.

        This birthday party qualifies as one.

        Your arrogance is showing.
        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Fez
          This is like arguing with a brick wall... what is your point Tass? The Nazi Party was outlawed from holding meetings and rallies in Germany, as should the Baath Party in Iraq.
          My point is that it shouldn't be, because its FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION.

          Trust me Fez, I know much more than you or any Americans do about how important Freedom of Expression really is. You see, because for a lot of my life, I didn't have it.....Only PRO Soviet demonstrations, no ANTI soviet dissident......etc etc. Just like what America is doing to Iraq

          You are completely delusional and quite ignorant.
          Ad Hominem debate fallacy.......again and again and again Lets start the "Fez Ad Hominem Count". So far it stands at

          FOUR. I wonder if it'll go any higher? Yep....Five.
          Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
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          • #35
            Originally posted by Fez


            Martial Law = Means all possible security threats must be kept under control.

            This birthday party qualifies as one.

            Your arrogance is showing.
            How is celebrating a birthday party a secuirty threat? Now your just picking and choosing threats in order to try to make it look like "They love us! They really do!"

            Just like Nazi Germany, Communist China, the Soviet Union..........
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            • #36
              Tass: Wrong again. The area under question, Iraq, is under martial law. No freedom of expression for the time being until there is an adequate police system set up to maintain security.

              You are claiming my argument is full of fallacies? You better look at your own debating style.
              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Fez
                Tass: Wrong again. The area under question, Iraq, is under martial law. No freedom of expression for the time being until there is an adequate police system set up to maintain security.
                Ok, then we should surpress ALL celebrations. Not just ones we dont like

                You are claiming my argument is full of fallacies? You better look at your own debating style.
                Oh come now Fez.....This, coming from you, sounds quite silly
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                • #38
                  Also, what about the destruction of property that belongs to the Iraqi people?

                  We should send them and their stuff back to their homes, not destroy it Fez
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                  • #39
                    There are somes the US can't surpress that are far too large and would turn into a blood bath. But one glorifying a war criminal is not permitable who was the leader previously.

                    Again your argument is full of holes and fallacies.
                    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                    • #40


                      From the ridiculous to the sublime.
                      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Tassadar5000
                        Also, what about the destruction of property that belongs to the Iraqi people?

                        We should send them and their stuff back to their homes, not destroy it Fez
                        Again another slanderous comment made against the United States.

                        And you are misquotating and misstating as usual.

                        You now qualify as the most annoying pest on this forum.
                        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Fez
                          There are somes the US can't surpress that are far too large and would turn into a blood bath. But one glorifying a war criminal is not permitable who was the leader previously.
                          I won't talk about your support of dictators, but.....

                          Again, WHY NOT? It poses NO SECUIRTY THREAT, does not merit DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY, and simply showed Iraqis exercising new freedoms.....If we are to win over their hearts, we could start by not hacking out pictures they make of Saddam
                          Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
                          Long live teh paranoia smiley!

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                          • #43
                            My support of dictators? You obviously have a love for Saddam Hussein...

                            Again Tass, it was the glorification of a former leader and I believe you are in no position whether to state if it doesn't pose a security threat. It does.
                            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Fez
                              And you are misquotating and misstating as usual.
                              Heres the full article, Fez. I'll bold what I'm talking about.

                              .S. Troops Spoil Saddam's Hometown Birthday Party
                              Mon Apr 28, 1:37 PM ET Add Top Stories - Reuters to My Yahoo!


                              By Saul Hudson

                              TIKRIT, Iraq (Reuters) - It was not enough to bomb his palaces, smash up his statues and kick him out of power. U.S. troops on Monday also ruined Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s hometown birthday party.


                              Reuters Photo

                              No Birthday Celebrations For Saddam
                              (Reuters Video)




                              Latest news:
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                              Special Coverage





                              In Tikrit, dozens of die-hard loyalists danced and sang of their passion for Saddam, parading a homemade cake and oil painting of the former leader through their neighborhood backstreets.


                              Young girls in bright red dresses jumped on the spot holding up portraits of him and chanted: "We will sacrifice our souls and blood for Saddam Hussein."


                              But the small-scale street parties for Saddam, born 66 years ago just outside the town, were short-lived -- broken up by U.S. Bradley fighting vehicles and soldiers patrolling with M-16 rifles.


                              "We only want to celebrate peacefully,"" primary school teacher Sabahan Harez, 50, said. "Where is the freedom of expression the Americans boast so much about."


                              With helicopters circling low overhead, troops searched vehicles at checkpoints of barbed wire and tanks throughout the town, backing up traffic in lines of up to 100 vehicles.


                              One soldier hacked the face out of a Saddam mosaic portrait with a pick axe, while others raced around the town of neat palm tree-lined roads, whitewashing from walls the "Saddam Lives" and "Bush is a Dog" graffiti .


                              One Iraqi marked Saddam's birthday face down in the dust at a checkpoint with his hands cuffed behind his back and his suitcase -- stuffed with dollar bills -- on the ground behind the open boot of his BMW car. "We are more vigilant, more alert because it's his birthday," Staff Sgt. Jesse Barr said, adding that residents had shot at U.S. troops and fired mortars toward them the night before.


                              BIRTHDAY PARADE


                              A typical birthday celebration in the past in Tikrit, 100 miles north of Baghdad, attracted tens of thousands of visitors who were feted with cake, juice and Saddam songs before paying homage to him by passing through a parade ground.


                              This year, a few U.S. tanks and soldiers guarded the desolate stadium.


                              In many provincial towns, traffic generally flows freely with few security checkpoints and most Iraqis delight in ripping up posters of their leader of the last 25 years.


                              But in Tikrit, residents say they adore their benefactor, grateful for the town's clean, well-paved roads, electricity and free schools.


                              They did not join the soldiers in tearing down Saddam's cult-like portraits which until the war adorned every lamppost along town's main avenue.


                              Asked Saddam's whereabouts, the common refrain in Tikrit was "in the people's hearts."


                              Most believe he is alive, hiding somewhere inside Iraq (news - web sites) and hope he returns to power one day and to his hometown palace where statues of him on horseback brandishing a sword still top the ornate entrance gates.


                              "We need Saddam back," Fidah Mahmoud, a 49-year-old mother, said. "Only Saddam can control the Iraqi people and give us security."





                              Tikrit was the last major town American troops took over in their invasion of Iraq, but there was no major last stand from his loyalists.

                              Some residents said Saddam's iron rule had only taught the people to make a show of loving him, even if they did not feel it.

                              "The truth is people hate him. I do," Ali Abdullah, 50, a wheat farmer, said. "I care more about this old shoe here with the hole in it more than I do about Saddam."
                              I'm hardly misquoting it, Fez You just want to pretend I am. If you wish, I can take another picture....
                              Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
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                              • #45
                                A portrait does not equal a prized possession.. they are probably hundreds and thousands of them floating around. I would of took the honors in destroying the portrait myself.
                                For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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