The Court: Who should control North/South Sheepsta

[Drogue]

Here it is. As newly elected Chief Judge, I hereby post the official court thread for the case of who is to have control of the nations of North Sheepsta and South Sheepsta.

This is an official thread, please only post when invited. If you wish to post, and have not been invited, please PM myself

The 2 parties in this case are Sheep and Archaic, representing New Sheepsta and Alecrast respectively.

To those that do not know the history, in brief, North and South Sheepsta were stared by Sheep, yet, due to illness, he was unable to look after them, was idle for a period of over 21 days, and thus Archaic too over. Sheep says that North and South Sheepsta are his, and that he should be given them back, Archaic says that he lost the right to them by being idle, and that they are rightfully under his control. They are settled only by natives currently.

North Sheepsta is under Alecrast control, and South Sheepsta is under Bulbagarden control. However, since Bulbagarden is not under the jurisdiction of this court, it is not bound by the decision. Thus that is a matter for the court to decide, if Bulbagarden can be allowed to have control, even being a non-Apolytonian.

Would all Judges available to hear this, please PM me as such, and would Archaic and Sheep please write in if there are any Judges which they will not accept to hear this, and write in if they accept to be bound by the courts decision. If yes, then please abide by it, if not, then this will give justification for nations to act as given by the verdict.

Thank you. Let the case begin. Please remember this is a mediation court, therefore there is no plaintiff/defendant as such. All parties are equal, and there is no burden of proof, merely that Judges should decide, based on what is presented in front of them in this court, who has the better case, and judge accordingly.

[Archaic]

Alecrast accepts to be bound by the courts decision. Furthermore, recognising that the Protectorate of South Sheepsta is part of the Apolyton region and under the juristiction of the Apolyton court, Bulbagarden also wishes to make known that it will consider itself bound by the decision of the court as well.

However, first, we would like to make a few small clarifications to what is posted above. We have of course refained from putting our arguements into these clarifications. Those will come once New Sheepsta has ratified that they will be bound by the decision of the courts as well.

Sheepsta wea stared by Sheep, yet, apparently due to illness, he was unable to look after them, was idle for a period of over 21 days, and Nationstates deleted his account. Archaic took over in RP terms after waiting 7 days to see if Sheep would return, posting up on the 8th of March, with the formal splitting of Sheepsta into North and South Sheepsta in RP terms happening after Sheep had returned on the 13th of March. Sheep says that North and South Sheepsta are his, and that he should be given them back, Archaic says that he lost the right to them by being idle, and that they are rightfully under his control. They are settled only by natives currently.

[Sheep]

New Sheepsta would like to announce that it would like to have a council. Jack_www of the United States of Jackson is to be recognised as New Sheepsta's attorney and is allowed to post in New Sheepsta's name.

[Sheep]

New Sheepsta in the first point of buisness agrees with the Alecrastian amendmants, as truth. New Sheepsta however does not say North and South Sheepsta are ours. We sayall of Sheepsta is ours. Sheepsta is not to be divided. It is to be reunified, such as majortiy if not all of the natives yearn for, to be reunited with family and friends on the other side of the borders.

New Sheepsta also announces that it will not support any judging nation that currently has troops in Sheepsta. Therfore, Centralis and Alecrast are ruled out.

[DarkCloud]

Thank you. Let the case begin. Please remember this is a mediation court, therefore there is no plaintiff/defendant as such

Just a note, sheep


---
Iguana Fire's Foreign Minister has dispatched a team to see to it that New Sheepsta receives correct legal rulings, and remarks that it will back New Sheepsta as much as possible, since Iguana Fire finds Centralis and Alecrast to be in the wrong on this issue.

[Sheep]

Iguana Fire is most welcome to join NEw Sheepsta's team of lawyers. contact me at liammaddrell@hotmail.com or on MSN at that address or on AIM at sheepmaddrell

[Archaic]

Well, if New Sheepsta is doing it, so shall we. With the permission of the court and of these nations, Alecrast, Bulbagarden, and the Parliments of the Protectorates of North and South Sheepsta ask that Centralis, Karakas and Dakmoristan be recognised as our Legal Council.

[Sheep]

New Sheepsta does not recognise the governments of North and South Sheepsta as existing, only Sheepsta as a whole, and asks that they do not participate.

[Jack_www]

Hello Chief Judge of the Apolyton Court and associate judges of the court. First I would like to point out that on one is required to follow the ruling of this court, and as you your self Drogue, the Chief Justice, has said as much. After clearing up this point I would like to start my opening arguments on behalf of the nation of New Sheepsta.

The Nation of Alecrast major claims for South and North Sheepsta are that my client was inactive at the time and that he had given him advance warning that he was taking over Sheepsta. Well Alecrast has failed to hear the other side and has ignore the facts in this case and is wrong in all respects. The first week of my client’s inactivity he was unable to even go to a computer let alone go online to check his nation on nationstates. He was in the hospital at the time. The following three weeks after this he was only able to go online for a period of 15 to 30 minutes a day because of his medical condition. He had only enough time to check Apolyton and CFC for the NES he was in and thought that nationstates was down or too slow to waste his time checking it when he had so little time and was sick. By the time he had the time to check, Alecrast and their allies had already taken over North and South Sheepsta and my client had no time to prevent this from happening.

Also the second point I would like to make hear is that Alecrast and their allies had no right to move into Sheepsta and take it over. The first time that the OSDN came in and use military force to back up the USS and free Sheepsta, the government had requested this and at that time Sheepsta had WMD. Thus all of apolyton acted to free Sheepsta, stop the rebels from using the WMD and destroyed them. After this USS was set up as the lawful government of Sheepsta and were allies with the OSDN. When USS fell, instead of coming before the Apolyton and asking for help, they acted on their own, did not even give anyone advance enough warning and took sheepsta over for themselves.
No international body ever gave them the right to do this and the people of sheepsta did not request it either. Thus they had no right to move in and take sheepsta.

This ends our opening arguments. Next we will present the evidence that back up these points.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Sheep
New Sheepsta does not recognise the governments of North and South Sheepsta as existing, only Sheepsta as a whole, and asks that they do not participate.

That you do not recognise their existance does not invalidate the fact that they do exist. Why do you want to stop the people of the protectorates from voicing their opinions? You do not speak for all of Sheepsta, as much as you might wish and claim you do.

Alecrast, Bulbagarden and the Protectorate States of North and South Sheepsta will present their opening arguements after conference with our legal council.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Archaic
Alecrast accepts to be bound by the courts decision. Furthermore, recognising that the Protectorate of South Sheepsta is part of the Apolyton region and under the juristiction of the Apolyton court, Bulbagarden also wishes to make known that it will consider itself bound by the decision of the court as well.

So accepted. However, if Alecrast/Bulbagarden are to win, there will still be the issue of a non-Apolyton country having control of one that is in Apolyton. We thank you for this.

Originally posted by Archaic
Sheepsta wea stared by Sheep, yet, apparently due to illness, he was unable to look after them, was idle for a period of over 21 days, and Nationstates deleted his account. Archaic took over in RP terms after waiting 7 days to see if Sheep would return, posting up on the 8th of March, with the formal splitting of Sheepsta into North and South Sheepsta in RP terms happening after Sheep had returned on the 13th of March. Sheep says that North and South Sheepsta are his, and that he should be given them back, Archaic says that he lost the right to them by being idle, and that they are rightfully under his control. They are settled only by natives currently.

Since that is all factual, I see no problem with it, and therefore the extra details will be added.

Originally posted by Sheep
New Sheepsta would like to announce that it would like to have a council. Jack_www of the United States of Jackson is to be recognised as New Sheepsta's attorney and is allowed to post in New Sheepsta's name.

That is prefectly fine. However please be aware that since this is mediation between two parties (Alecrast and Bulbagarden have the same position, and thus count as one) there can only be one person posting on behalf of either party. Thus if Sheep would like Jack_www to be his council, nobody else, including himself, can be his attorney. Likewise to Archaic. You may have other peopel advising you, but they may not post as attornys.

Originally posted by Sheep
Therfore, Centralis and Alecrast are ruled out.

So stricken. Judge's who may hear this cas are therefore Drogue of Akiria, red_jon of Redfern, Giovanni Wine of Wine and Slowwhand of North Texas. They have all been PMed to see who can hear it.

DarkCloud: Please read the first thread, and post only when invited. Thank you.

Originally posted by Sheep
New Sheepsta does not recognise the governments of North and South Sheepsta as existing, only Sheepsta as a whole, and asks that they do not participate.

However, at the moment, they do exist, as seperate countries. We realise your wish is unification, and that will be the outcome if you win, however we must rule that at the moment they are seperate, and may be refered to as such, even though in this trial, they speak as one. Moreover, this case is not against North or South Sheepsta, but between New Sheepsta and Alecrast. If you wish, they can just be refered to as 'the disputed terratories'.

Originally posted by Jack_www
Hello Chief Judge of the Apolyton Court and associate judges of the court. First I would like to point out that on one is required to follow the ruling of this court, and as you your self Drogue, the Chief Justice, has said as much.

In that case, I take it that your client has not agreed to be bound by the decision of the Judges? In that case, neither is Alecrast. The verdict of this court will, however, give legitimacy to the nation we deem is in the right.

Originally posted by Archaic
You do not speak for all of Sheepsta, as much as you might wish and claim you do.

No, he does not, He speaks for New Sheepsta. But then, neither does yourself. The Disputer Terratories do not take part in this court, unless called as witnesses. This case is between Alecrast (and Bulbagarden) and New Sheepsta.

Archaic, feel free to reply as soon as you wish. Please use one post, and then Jack_www may use one post to reply and post it's next evidence. We will alternate like that, and if anyone else wishes to post, please PM myself, with what you wish to say. Judges, once you have PMed me to say if you wish to serve, feel free to make points as and when you see fit.

Thank you.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Drogue
So accepted. However, if Alecrast/Bulbagarden are to win, there will still tbe the issue of a non-Apolyton country having control of one that is in Apolyton. We thank you for this.

We acknowledge this, and both Alecrast and Bulbagarden pledge to accept the ruling of the court on that issue when it is reached.

Originally posted by Drogue
That is prefectly fine. However please be aware that since this is mediation between two parties (Alecrast and Bulbagarden have the same position, and thus count as one) there can only be one person posting on behalf of either party. Thus if Sheep would like Jack_www to be his council, nobody else, including himself, can be his attorney. Likewise to Archaic. You may have other peopel advising you, but they may not post as attornys.

Understood. Alecrast and Bulbagarden with to advise that Centralis will be acting as our council.

Originally posted by Drogue
No, he does not, He speaks for New Sheepsta. But then, neither does yourself. The Disputer Terratories do not take part in this court, unless called as witnesses. This case is between Alecrast (and Bulbagarden) and New Sheepsta.

Understood.

Originally posted by Drogue
Archaic, feel free to reply as soon as you wish. Please use one post, and then Jack_www may use one post to reply and post it's next evidence. We will alternate like that, and if anyone else wishes to post, please PM myself, with what you wish to say. Judges, once you have PMed me to say if you wish to serve, feel free to make points as and when you see fit.

Thank you.

Our council, GeneralTacticus of Centralis, will make our opening statement shortly.

[GeneralTacticus]

The Opening Statement from Alecrast

As legal council to the Commonwealth of Alecrast in this case, we have been instructed to deliver the following adress to the Apolyton Court, based upon the framework given to us by Alecrast, which has been amended as we see fit.

Judges of the Apolyton Regional Court, today I come before you on behalf of my client for a two fold purpose.

Firstly, to show that the government of New Sheepsta, by the simple virtue of it not being a legitimate successor - in terms of leadership, law, or governmental structure - to the government of the former United States of Sheepsta, would have no right to rule over the island of Sheepsta even if it could be proven that the Alecrast and Bulbagarden protectorates were not legitimate. If we allowed every group that declared itself to be a governemnt to become one, what we would see would be pure anarchy Anyone could assert their rights over anyone else by declaring themselves to be a government, and the only way to resolve this would be by force. This is a recipe for the simple rule by the strongest.

Secondly, to show that the establishment of the protectorates by Alecrast and Bulbagarden, while both sudden and done without conferance with the other nations of the region outside of this, was both legitimate, and welcomed by the Sheepstan people.

The New Sheepstan Council tells a great sob story about how his client could not administrate his nation, though one must wonder how he could distort a fact that actually would put things in our favour with how he said it, given that Alecrast never did, and certainly never did claim that he did, ever give Sheep advance warning of moving in to begin setting up a new administration in what was once his nation. However, he omits many important facts.

Firstly, there is no convincing arguement for why Sheep could not have opened up a second browser window to log into his nation, given that even when the server was slow, which it was not for the entire time of Sheeps absence, it would not have taken 15-30 minutes to log in even on a 56k connection.

Secondly, there is no reason that if Sheep could make posts on the Diplomacy forum, which he freely admits to doing, that he could not have posted a single topic in Nationstates telling people why he was away, a topic which would've needed to be 2 lines tops.

Finally, there is no reason why if Sheep could make posts on the Diplomacy forum that he could not have sent someone he trusted an email or private message with the password, asking them to login to the nation so that the 21 day limit for nation deletion would not have occured.

Sheep made no attempt to do any of these things, and by this, his actions cannot be called anything but negligent. He has effectivly forfeitted any ownership he had over the nation of Sheepsta just as anyone would if they threw a personal posession into the city dump.

The New Sheepstan Council also makes the claim that Alecrast and Bulbagarden had no right to go into Sheepsta in the first place. He says and I quote "No international body ever gave them the right to do this and the people of sheepsta did not request it either. Thus they had no right to move in and take sheepsta."

This, good people of the court, is a out and out lie. Their states being made into protectorates of Alecrast and Bulbagarden were ratified by the people of Sheepsta in a free and public referendum, whatever New Sheepstas propaganda ministry may claim, and Alecrast has repeatedly stated that it is prepared to hold a second vote under the control of international observers. Indeed, it is New Sheepsta who demands that the people be denied this.

Quite apart from this, New Sheepsta has, in the opinion of Centralis and it's clients, forfeited it's right to be trusted in anything it says, as it has repeatedly made false claims about the behaviour of the Alecrastian troops in Sheepsta (which were shown to be false by the inspecotrs, and troops of the Republic of Centralis, to say nothing of reporters from the international media), and also about the state of affairs in various parts of Sheepsta island, which were directly contradicted by reports from the UN (to which New Sheepsta responded by claiming that the UN was 'run by Alecrast', which, in our opinion, furhter calls into question their willingness to accept negative verdicts from anyone).

Finally, we wish to bring the following facts to the attention of the court. Quotes from the New Sheepstan Leadership.

If all foreing nations withdraw their troops and allow New Sheepsta to reunite and begin governing the nation again we shall have peace. If not a oong gureilla campagin shall ensue.

(In response to a reqest to call off his troops while the court deliberates)

No the glorious men and women of the Sheepstan liberation army while may not be able to beat you in open battle have the support of majority of Sheepsta's civilians and shall continue to work for the unification and liberation of our people. To allow you even the slightest respite would to allow you to dig yourselves in to keep the occuptaion of our homeland going.

And finally:

Sheepsta shall be free again. Although we will send a delegate to the court, we shall remind you that if the finding is unfavourable the true govenement of Sheepsta shall continue the fight.

This is a clear and open admission by the government of New Sheepsta that they do not intend to recognize an unfavourable verdict from this Court, one which they have yet to retract, evne when the implications of this were pointed out to them.

It is the belief of Alecrast, Bulbagarden, and Centralis that, if the court rules against New Sheepsta on any issues, that New Sheepsta will not accept the ruling of the court. As you can see, they refuse to call a cease fire while the court deliberates. Because of this, we ask for a guarantee that Sheepsta will accede to the wishes of the court. Without this, the proceedings become utterly pointless and a mere tool to allow the New Sheepstan leadership to take the rest of Sheepsta by diplomatic subterfuge.

Thank you for your time. We await the response by the New Sheepstan Council.

[Drogue]

Re: The Opening Statement from Alecrast

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
It is the belief of Alecrast, Bulbagarden, and Centralis that, if the court rules against New Sheepsta on any issues, that New Sheepsta will not accept the ruling of the court. As you can see, they refuse to call a cease fire while the court deliberates. Because of this, we ask for a guarantee that Sheepsta will accede to the wishes of the court. Without this, the proceedings become utterly pointless and a mere tool to allow the New Sheepstan leadership to take the rest of Sheepsta by diplomatic subterfuge.

That is not true, it will not be pointless. As a mediation court, no party is bound by the decision. However, what it does do, is give legitimacy to the party this court deems to be in the right. This means there will be no sanctions for taking military action to enforce this ruling, and trade sanctions will be legal, if any nation wishes to impose them to enforce this ruling. Indeed, The Commonwealth of Akiria, whom I represent, urges all parties, whether they agree to be bound or not, to honour the decision of this court. If New Sheepsta were to lose, and try to attack The Disputed Terratories, Akiria will defend them. Likewise, if Alecrast were to lose, but refuses to give up, aid, both tangible and monitary, will be sent to help New Sheepsta enforce this ruling.

Thank you Centralis. We hope during your case you provide evidence for the claims you have made.

Would Jack_www for New Sheepsta please respond, and provide evidence for examination. You have one post, then Centralis may reply. I think this has become clear, but just to reitterate. Thank you.

[DarkCloud]

DarkCloud: Please read the first thread, and post only when invited. Thank you.

Thats why I quoted the thing to Sheep!!!!!! I was trying to point out your no plantiff and lawyers ruling! as well as stating my support!