Bomb goes off in Marijuania's capital

[Whaleboy]

A huge explosion has been felt all over Marijuania's capital, New Amsterdam.

Casualty reports are coming in, we can confirm 236 dead, that figure is sure to rise.

The bomb exploded in a university district of the city, killing people on their lunch breaks.

A group closely linked to the Revolutionary Council has claimed responsibility for this act, as the new police force and emergency services, and the new army move in to restore order in the City.

This will prove to be a test for Marijuania's new counter-terrorism department, utilising some unique classified techniques to counter this group.

We will keep the region fully informed of these developments, as this group has threatened other nations, including Oral Fixation, Stanleystan, Akiria and Zetaris. We suspect those nations in geographical proximity to Marijuania to be at risk. We are nation 69 on the map.

These groups are in no-war affiliated with the new Marijuanian government, and their acts DO NOT constitute an act of war. Our intelligence suggests that this group comprises 40-70 individuals. We offer all affected nations our full assistance in dealing with these. All those guilty of atrocities in other nations, found in Marijuania, will be handed over to the respective nation.

Marijuania pledges to deal with this situation, and when it is over, we shall publisise our techniques.

[Drogue]

Dammit, will people never learn If you release that you are looking for them before you've found them, they will go into hiding! Don't they teach you anything at counter-terrorist school

We believe that we have information regarding this group, that we shall send to you via a secure channel, as a number of Akis (non state controlled of course) were involved with the revolutionary government during the Athkala and Method crisis in Marijuania, in an effort to undermine the Athkalans. These links have no been severed, as the terrorist cell they were working with has gone underground.

Akiria and Zetaris thank the government of Marijuania for their warning, but do not believe they are in danger. It is notoriously difficult to launch a terrorist attack there, because of the 24 hour public survailance, the large police force, the satallite images, and the very large, but undisclosed, number of Akis (see military thread for details) involved in counter-espionage.

[Whaleboy]

Of course Akiria and Zetaris are much stronger targets than Marijuania, but it is still our moral duty to warn other nations we believe to be targets, as there is always a possibility that they will succeed, and we want to minimise that possibility.

The idea is that we do release that we are looking for them.

< secure info >
The military communications division, with the help of MIST (the Marijuanian Institude of Science and Technology) have made contact with the leaders of this terrorist organisation. Negotiations have begun. A team of noted sociologists are analysing this current situation, while the military counter-terrorist branches are preparing themselves.

We are now authorised to publish out counter-terrorist techniques. Unlike other infamous methods (lots of bombs, lots of soldiers), we have realised that the best military equipment in the world is useless against a few determined individuals, and use of that equipment and tactics, while most effective against a similiarly armed foe, will be ineffective against terrorists, and seem to cause more.

We have determined that this terrorism have been caused by aspects of Marijuanian policy. There are two sides to every coin, and we endeavor to understand the terrorists, their causes and motivations, so we can effectively combat this irritation today, and effectively prevent it in the future.

The first Gemini-class sensory satellite of Marijuania's has been placed on full alert, and is currently monitoring all communications of the terrorists on Marijuanian soil. Civilian communications are generally too strongly encrypted to track, not that we would want to, and foreign traffic surveillance is of course out of the question. We are using our surveillance responsibly and effectively to solve this problem.

< / secure info >

[Drogue]

No only do you debate with terrorists, you change your policy due to terrorism Surely that will cause anyone who disagrees with government policy to become terrorists.

The governments of Akiria and Zetaris will never bow to terrorism. If the population want something, and a small terrorist organisation want another, you can be damn sure which one we're going to go with.

[Whaleboy]

Every side has a coin. If a people feel oppressed, and Marijuanian society is doing something they see as immoral, then we'll see what we can do. There is a solution to terrorism that doesnt involve guns.

If our people want something as a general consensus, it isnt breaching the Mill Limit, and it isnt hurting or being immoral to a small group, then they get it. We are not a tyranny by majority, and we damn well arent a tyranny by minority!

We are a peaceful nation, will only use force as a last resort in defence of us or our friends, and that stage has not, and undoubtably will never be reached.

We dont believe that "fighting talk" like "we will never bow to terrorism" is helpful here. It merely serves to antogonise, and doesnt do much to fight the problem, unless that problem is a lack of good sound-bytes.

[Whaleboy]

Because we have a large conduit of influence, people wont automatically turn to terrorism just because they disagree with us. The fact that they do turn to terrorism shows that the CofI has failed, which we will also look into.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by elijah
Every side has a coin.

Ok, so think of Northern Ireland. Say the majority want to stay affiliated with the UK, but a minority doesn't. The minority starts bombing. Do you then discuss seperation, and bow to the terrorists? We do not. The majority want affiliation, therefore they get it. This is not an issue about rights to do something, it is a pure choice about one of the other. The Euro would be another thing, although I can't see people firebombing over that

[Drogue]

Originally posted by elijah
we damn well arent a tyranny by minority!

If policy is dictated by a terrorist minority, then I am afraid you are the very pinacle of tyranny by majority

[Whaleboy]

I'm not saying we give in, I'm saying that there is a compromise solution. I'm also saying that while some things we cannot budge on, there are other causes for that terrorism that aren't necessarily related to their demands.

Strictly according to the Mill Limit, we are a tyranny by majority when the society wants to breach the Mill Limit of a small number of people. That is of course, something we wont allow.

A tyranny by minority is when the rights of the individual breaches the Mill Limit in the sense that they have too many rights. That has not occured here, because if we were to help the terrorists in stopping their actions in a "carrot" manner, then we would not allow the Mill Limits of anyone to be broken.

A Mill Limit society can theoretically exist, in the anarchist sense, without a government. Of course it couldnt function effectively, but my point is that government functions and changes to them are perfectly valid whilst they stay within the Mill Limit. One can technically have a Mill Limit society, that has moved beyond the need for democracy, as political rights are totally merged with civil rights, however that would not be prudent for Marijuania at this stage.

The people elected a government to run the country within the Mill Limit, and that is what we shall do. We tread the fine line between tyranny by majority and tyranny by minority, with perfect balance.

[Whaleboy]

The revised casualty figures are as follows: 1276 dead, with 23'342 injured.

We obviously hope that figure does not rise New Amsterdam's medical facilities have been stretched, but are coping. Counsellors have been sent to the bereaved.

[Drogue]

with perfect balance.

Nothings perfect, especially now with a

The revised casualty figures are as follows: 1276 dead, with 23'342 injured.

proceeding it. Obviosuly appeasement is not working perfectly.

I see it as a very fat line, with the ML towards one end. Thus it is not tyranny, by any means, but neither is it the only non tyrannical form of government.

[Whaleboy]

You fail to reason why it is a "fat line" and not a fine line.

The "appeasment" as you inaccurately put it, hadnt begun yet with these terrorists. The negotiations have obviously begun now.

These negotiations, and indeed all government functions, have little to do with the Mill Limit, except its maintainance. As such, it is not prudent to attack my balance between the tyrannies, over an issue that has nothing to do with it!

[Drogue]

And you failed to explain why it is a

fine line between tyranny by majority and tyranny by minority

I merely think it is not, as I have explained to you before. I see tyranny as an extreme, with a lot in the middle. Tyrannical governments are few and far between IMHO, and thus there are many diffeent types of governments that I would not call tyrannical. Many different types, and thus quite a fat line, to encorporate all those different types. Negotiations with terrorists=appeasement to me.

[Whaleboy]

Perhaps.

Tyranny by majority is a government that impedes the rights of the individual, while minority impedes the rights of society. In that sense, I suppose that one must have a government that treads that path between, but that path still leaves them with options that does not turn them into either tyranny. In that respect, I concede, but it must surely mean that you concede that Marijuania, as a Mill Limit society, and its government by taking these actions has not become "the very pinacle of tyranny by majority"

[Whaleboy]

That is of course assuming that government actions are factored into a degree of tyranny.

By saying that it is a thin line, one is saying government actions as x, y, or z. Y is the line between, z and y are the tyrannies. In that sense, (tyranny by majority or tyranny by minority), then it is a thin line. Government actions that do not breach the Mill Limit of either side are y, and are that factor in between. Also consider that with regards to the people and society, a ML government can only either maintain the ML, or break it in one way. The ML is theoretically clear cut, (although different interpretations can have ambiguities), so in that respect, as so far as a government can deal with a society and individuals, it is a very thin line.

This of course does not exclude the governments right and ability to take different courses of actions, none of which break the Mill Limit.. In this sense, I believe you are viewing possible government actions as the determining factor in the width of this line between the two tyrannies.

However, my more more aesthetic solution is perhaps harder to comprehend than the more simplistic interpretation above, where a governments rights and abilities, and resultant number of courses of action, is factored into the width of the line between the two tyrannies. Take your pick, it is a relatively tiny issue, one knows when the government actually becomes a tyranny.