Bomb goes off in Marijuania's capital

[Whaleboy]

"Negotiations with terrorists=appeasement to me"

Why? Appeasement implies giving them what they want. It also implies giving an inch, them taking a mile (hitler style), although I dont think you mean that.

Depending on their demands, we may not give them what they want, but can still have a successful negotiation, in which we give them what they need to stop terrorism, in other words, change the conditions created by Marijuania, and actively help to rectify them, so as in order to prevent more terrorism, and make the terrorists happier, more productive citizens.

We fail to see the taboo in negotiating with terrorists. It is a simple economic/game theory scenario. It serves no purpose to be irrational, especially since the non-talking approach can lead to more bloodshed. Bloodshed is that last thing we want, Marijuania has seen enough of that in recent days.

[Jack_www]

Jackson does not negotiate with terrorists, we hunt them down. The USJ special forces can be deployed to take care of them if you wish.

[GeneralTacticus]

Negotiation with terrorists is only harmful if you refused to negotiate beforehand, as this demonstrates that terrorism is effective and encourages more of it. Do recall, also, that simply because someone is a terrorist does not invalidate their cause; it makes them, and anyone who supproted them in carrying otu terrorism, guilty of whatever crimes they have committed (murder, arson, whatever), but this guilt doesn't necessarily extend to others who support the same cause as them. To put it another way: terrorism is wrong, and must be punished, but it doesn't invalidate the cause in which it's undertaken.

[Whaleboy]

We concur with GT.

We warmly thank Jackson for his kind offer, but we believe we can handle this effectively ourselves, it is a perfect opportunity for our sociologists and psychologists to understand the the terrorist so as to prevent it from happening in the future.

By changing the conditions that create terrorism, we can stop it in its tracks, nipping it in the proverbial bud before it becomes a menace. They may well have a perfectly valid cause which needs to be addressed, and once that is the case, with a little "greasing of the wheels", terrorism will stop.

Information on the progress made thus far in the negotiations will be published shortly. When we have successfully dealt with this threat, Marijuania will hold an international party, to which all nations are invited! Rock on!

[Whaleboy]

The terrorists concerns are as follows...

Marijuanian tulip industries have been slowly encrouching on the land used by independent growers of a small community of Stanleys on the Northern side of the Marijuanian Isles. The independents are now out of business, unemployed and suffering great hardship.

Thus far, due in part to their geographical location, separated from the rest of Marijuania by a mountain range and high-altitude desert (perfect for growing high-power hash), they have had little voice in Marijuania. These terrorist acts were a cry for help, our psychologists have concluded.

They demand a restoration of the communist Revolutionary Council, who controlled the tulip corps. This is of course unacceptable, however, we hav already offered incentives to the Tulip corps to scale back and locate elsewhere.

They know that they are close to breaching the Mill Limit, and upon that event, they will be dissolved or split up. As such, their survival is dependent on their cooperation here. We have started work on a space-propulsion R&D facility, concentrating on Ion Drive propulsion, in the area where that community lives, so as to increase employment in the area. They will be paid a good salary, not peanuts. Their children will be educated in the same way as the rest of Marijuania, and their sick will be cared for at the same standard.

We await the terrorist organisations response. Our negotiations have gone well, have concentrated thus far on building trust, and destroying their myths about us being monsters. In the meantime, we have learned about them, and have realised that they are not blood-crazed hate-filled lunatics.

We also have a secret (and obvious) way to make negotiators from all sides, drop their differences and start to join together in a brotherly harmony. Of course that isnt necessary, but we could help outselves! (Anyone who has seen the Ali G movie will know what I'm talking about).

[Whaleboy]

We report success in our negotiation attempts. The great joy of this occasion has been overshadowed by tragic events in our allyJackson however.

Nonetheless, the Revolutionary Restorers have agreed to stand down, and put the perpetrators of the outrage in New Amsterdam up for arrest and fair trial. Development in the area of the Stanleys continues, and the economy and quality of life has already shot up, as has our development of Ion Engines

[Drogue]

Originally posted by elijah
In that respect, I concede, but it must surely mean that you concede that Marijuania, as a Mill Limit society, and its government by taking these actions has not become "the very pinacle of tyranny by majority"

I won't gloat I do concide that Marijuania is not the pinacle of tyranny by majority (did I say that?). I do not think it is the least tyrannical system, or rather, the closest to the middle of the fat line of non-tyranny, but I do accept that it is in that line, and thus is neither tyranny by majority nor minority. In other words, we agree on where it is

Originally posted by elijah
Why? Appeasement implies giving them what they want. It also implies giving an inch, them taking a mile (hitler style), although I dont think you mean that.

Nope, I mean giving an inch, and them taking an inch. An inch is too much to concide because of terror tactics.

Originally posted by elijah
We fail to see the taboo in negotiating with terrorists. It is a simple economic/game theory scenario. It serves no purpose to be irrational, especially since the non-talking approach can lead to more bloodshed. Bloodshed is that last thing we want, Marijuania has seen enough of that in recent days.

The problem is, if you show that you negociate with terrorists, then many more people will resort to terror tactics to get their opinions heard. The only way to educate people that terrorism isn't the way to get your view heard, is to refuse to negotiate with terrorists. If they stop using terror tactics, then they can have a seat at the bargaining table. It is like strikes, if you give into the strike issue, you get more strikes, as the workers see that you give into them.

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
To put it another way: terrorism is wrong, and must be punished, but it doesn't invalidate the cause in which it's undertaken.

I agree, but I feel the only way to stop people resorting to terror tactics, is to refuse to negotiate with people who are terrorists. If others want to bring that point, or if terrorists stop using terror tactics, then they can negotiate. They must stop terrorising first though.

[Whaleboy]

We have not given them what they wanted though. We have created the conditions required to prevent future attacks. We were quite able to go in and kill them all, but we did not want to do that because it is a waste, and an immoral waste. If the negotiations failed, we would have had to forcibly arrest or neutralise them, unless we were satisfied they were no further threat, in which case they would be charged for the atrocities in New Amsterdam.

We do not take victrionic or stubborn (on a national scale) attitudes towards terrorists. It is a crime, and mostly a cry for help, and like we said, there are two sides to every coin. Just because we are their victims, does that suddenly mean our attitudes should logically change? Marijuania is ruled by its head, not by its heart or its testicles. As such, if we "give an inch" and thus not suffer future attacks and avoid unnecessary bloodshed, then it is worth it.

I reiterate... we did NOT give them want, we gave their community what they needed to prevent future attacks. We would have done the same were we not attacked, it is just the attack that brought their plight to our attention.

There wont be any future attacks because Marijuania is proactively helping problemed communities become educated and prosperous. As soon as someone blows themselves up, it does not suddenly turn them into some kind of untersatan. We react accordingly.

"I feel the only way to stop people resorting to terror tactics, is to refuse to negotiate with people who are terrorists"

That is based on the assumption that most terrorists are out to obtain something via negotiations. Most are not. The demands of the Revolutionary Restorers were too unreasonable to be met, even they admitted to that. Look at the word TERRORism. It is fear weapon, more of a publicity stunt than a means of blackmail. It is a way of showing the world how resolved they are, and how fanatical they are, but underneath, also how desperate and hurting they are.

Terrorists will not achieve their aims through bombing Marijuania, just as they wont through bombing Akiria. The difference is, that we will negotiate with them, and give their communities what they need, we view it with a level head, rather than going in and killing/arresting them, which doesnt do anyone any good, as it is more likely to perpetuate the vicious circle of terrorism.

We have stopped terrorism in Marijuania, the New Amsterdam tragedy we will ensure, will be the last. No-one else has been killed, those guilty have been peacefully brought to justice and are currently being re-hab'd. Their community, from living in squalor, despair and pain are now prosperous, educated, happy and contributing.

Id say that we've had a pretty successful episode!

[Whaleboy]

" I won't gloat"

I know . I confirmed that according to your simplistic model of looking at my political situation (which over-applies occams razor imo), you are correct. According to my more sophisticated transdimensional image (which gives a thin line), I am also right, and am walking that line between tyranny by majority and minority.

For example:

"closest to the middle of the fat line of non-tyranny"

If one is in that line, one is at the pinnicle. If you like, according to your image, it is a mountain with a plateau at the peak, so to speak.