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  • Proposed Letter to Professor Diamond

    Here's a draft. Comments welcome.

    (date)

    Professor Jared Diamond
    c/o W. W. Norton & Company, Inc.
    500 Fifth Avenue
    New York, NY 10110

    Dear Professor Diamond,

    I am writing on behalf of a group of people who are designing a computer game based on your book 'Guns, Germs, and Steel'. Desiring a computer game both interesting and challenging, yet different from both arcade action-games and turn-based warfare games, we have decided to focus on the basic principles of ultimate causes for civilization-development expressed in your book. We wish to advise you of our intent and also to request your qualified permission to proceed with "Guns, Germs, and Steel" as our working title.

    I am not a lawyer, nor am I in any business arrangement concerning the game. I am merely an interested computer gamesplayer participating in discussions with other interested parties concerning the kind of game I would personally enjoy playing. This idea is based on a reasonably complex game called "Civilization2" wherein players start with a single settler in 4000 BC on an unknown map. Players assign resources, (food, gold, and technology research) to slowly build functioning civilizations (culminating in space flight to Alpha Centuri if all goes well).

    However, some of us have found that Civilization2 is too much a war game and affords less strategic freedom for more constructive and realistic efforts. Hence, our interest in your book. My own interest came from reading your book (several times so far) and only finding the game programmer group later. So, my desire in all of this is to help create a game that I myself would enjoy playing. I don't mind adding that, if it teaches people a bit more about how civilizations rise and fall, I will consider that a positive (if sly) bit of player-education.

    The group specifically requests that I mention that their programming is to be "open-source", meaning that everybody interested can contribute to it, and the game will remain completely free for everybody. Considering that this appears to be one of those internet "labors of love", I have agreed to write to you on their behalf.

    Will you give us your qualified permission to use "Guns, Germs, and Steel" as the working title for the game? Would you be interested in knowing more about our progress? May we (very) occasionally ask you some questions concerning the ideas in your book?

    GGS game website: http://civ3.sourceforge.net/contact.html

    (name and address)
    Civ2 Demo Game #1 City-Planner, President, Historian
    Civ2 Demo Game #2 Minister of War,President, Minister of Trade, Vice President, City-Planner
    Civ2 Demo Game #3 President, Minister of War, President
    Civ2 Demo Game #4 Despot, City-Planner, Consul

  • #2
    I really think this is a great letter. No doubt about that.

    I think asking whether we could ask him questions is propably too much. I like opening for the possibility to tell him more about the project, and if he agrees on this we could ask him a few questions while doing that, if we want to, that is. But right now the main issue is his permission to use the title. If the letter also makes him interested in our project then that will just be an extra bonus.

    And maybe change "...it teaches people a bit more about how civilizations rise and fall..." in the third paragraph to "...it teaches people a bit more about the mechanisms of history..." or something - just to make it a bit more general, in stead of focusing on "just" why civs rise and fall.

    But this is just minor details. All in all I believe this is a truly magnificant letter. Good job!

    ------------------
    "The future is that mountain."
    - Bret Easton Ellis

    GGS Website
    "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
    - Hans Christian Andersen

    GGS Website

    Comment


    • #3
      OK, I've made some changes, based on your suggestions. Ignore the indentations and formatting, I will fix that in the final letter.

      I am reluctant to outright request permission to use the title, since that is probably a legal and financial matter. I think it better to invite his interest first.

      How does this sound?

      (date)

      Professor Jared Diamond
      c/o W. W. Norton & Company, Inc.
      500 Fifth Avenue
      New York, NY 10110

      Dear Professor Diamond,

      I am writing on behalf of a group of people who are designing a computer game based on
      your book 'Guns, Germs, and Steel'. Desiring a computer game both interesting and
      challenging, yet different from both arcade action-games and turn-based warfare games,
      we have decided to focus on the basic principles of ultimate causes for
      civilization-development expressed in your book. We wish to advise you of our intent and
      also to request your qualified permission to proceed with "Guns, Germs, and Steel" as our
      working title.

      I am not a lawyer, nor am I in any business arrangement concerning the game. I am
      merely an interested computer gamesplayer participating in discussions with other
      interested parties concerning the kind of game I would personally enjoy playing. This idea
      is based on a reasonably complex game called "Civilization2" wherein players start with a
      single settler in 4000 BC on an unknown map. Players assign resources, (food, gold, and
      technology research) to slowly build functioning civilizations (culminating in space flight
      to Alpha Centuri if all goes well).

      However, some of us have found that Civilization2 is too much a war game and affords
      less strategic freedom for more constructive and realistic efforts. Hence, our interest in
      your book. My own interest came from reading your book (several times so far) and only
      finding the game programmer group later. So, my desire in all of this is to help create a
      game that I myself would enjoy playing. I don't mind adding that, if it teaches people a
      bit more about the mechanisms of how civilizations thrived or failed relative to others, I
      will consider that a positive (if sly) bit of player-education.

      The group specifically requests that I mention that their programming is to be
      "open-source", meaning that everybody interested can contribute to it, and the game will
      remain completely free for everybody. Considering that this appears to be one of those
      internet "labors of love", I have agreed to write to you on their behalf.

      Will you give us your qualified permission to use "Guns, Germs, and Steel" as the working
      title for the game? Would you be interested in knowing more about our progress? The project website is:

      GGS game website: http://civ3.sourceforge.net/contact.html

      (name and address)

      [This message has been edited by cavebear (edited December 26, 2000).]
      Civ2 Demo Game #1 City-Planner, President, Historian
      Civ2 Demo Game #2 Minister of War,President, Minister of Trade, Vice President, City-Planner
      Civ2 Demo Game #3 President, Minister of War, President
      Civ2 Demo Game #4 Despot, City-Planner, Consul

      Comment


      • #4
        Great Work cavebear
        1 thing
        The website address is www.gunsgermsandsteel.com

        The address you haad was how to contact us. Prehaps that is what you wanted....

        Comment


        • #5
          Hmm.
          Maybe we should wait with telling him that we have that website, untill we actually have the permission to use the title.

          That way we would seem like we were just waiting for him to give us the permission. I am not saying this is a big thing, but from a tactical viewpoint it might be best to give our "other" website adress: civ3.sourceforge.net.

          ------------------
          "The future is that mountain."
          - Bret Easton Ellis

          GGS Website
          [This message has been edited by The Joker (edited December 27, 2000).]
          "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
          - Hans Christian Andersen

          GGS Website

          Comment


          • #6
            You guys do realize (don't you?) that you don't need professor Diamond's permission to use the title, right? (Unless he's actually trademarked the name, a very unlikely possibility).

            While it is certainly nice of you to ask, it would put you in an awkward position if he says "no". You would then either have to ignore his denial (which you legally could do, though it would make you look bad) or be nice about it and change the name (which, while it wouldn't be devistating at this point in development, wouldn't be good, since you'd lose the name recognition you have developed so far).

            Worse, if he says no, and you use the name anyway, you've alerted him to the fact that you exist and are using his work to derive another work. While this is perfectly legal to do, there *is* an off chance lawyers could become involved (a tragic development in any undertaking ). If he *really* wanted to be mean, he could use your letter as grounds that any work you produce, even with a different name, is derivative of his work, and you could find yourself in a legal battle anyway (though he'd be on pretty shaky ground at that point, AIUI).

            If he says "yes", then none of this is a problem, of course. But keep in mind you are taking a risk. I don't know that I wouldn't do exactly the same thing in your position, but I'd certainly be a little bit nervous about it. Maybe y'all ought to be fully *sure* you want to talk to professor D before you shoot off a letter?

            Of course, I am not a lawyer. But I have had a couple of legal dealings regarding MD (one being a "battle" over the use of the name) for which I've had to get legal advice (fortunately, I've not had to actually go to court, thank god!). So I'm just passing along what I have learned, as I understand it. Just be careful, and maybe if you have a friend or family member who understands copyright law better than I do, ask them what they think before you plunge into what could turn into a mess. The last thing you want is for your hobby to turn into a legal nightmare!

            Ron
            Manifest Destiny - The Race For World Domination
            -Playable Alpha now available!
            http://www.rjcyberware.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Damn.

              You have a point there.

              What about Clash? They are called the same as a book about history. Did they ask permission or anything?

              Then maybe writing that GGS was in fact based on the book would not be a good thing from a legal perspective. Also since the game had been in development for some time before I found, read and introduced the book to the group.

              Is there any way to see if names are copyrighted? A database of some sort?

              On the other hand I think writing him and telling him about the project really would be a nice gesture to give to the guy. And who knows, maybe he would be interested in hearing more about the project and development. But is this worth risking legal problems?

              I think we should discuss this before sending the letter. That's all I can say at this point.

              ------------------
              "The future is that mountain."
              - Bret Easton Ellis

              GGS Website
              "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
              - Hans Christian Andersen

              GGS Website

              Comment


              • #8
                With all this said I really like your new letter, Cavebear. It's even better than the first one! If we are sending him anything, that would be it, that's for sure.

                ------------------
                "The future is that mountain."
                - Bret Easton Ellis

                GGS Website
                "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
                - Hans Christian Andersen

                GGS Website

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's a great letter cavebear! Thanks for writing it in the first place. Second: I agree that we don't neccesarily have to ask for using the name this first letter. If he's really a very little interested he would ask for or we would give him the name of the game.

                  On the other hand: he must think: Why are they sending me this letter just to tell about a computer game? Hum... I think we should mention GGS anywhere in the letter, not intensionaly refered to the title of our game. AS did in the first sentence of the latter containing Guns, Germs and Steel.

                  'a computer game based on
                  your book 'Guns, Germs, and Steel'. ' is good...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Good points about the use of the title. I wasn't sure about how protected titles were (I'm glad to hear they are not *very* protected). Still, that's a bridge that doesn't need to be crossed yet, so perhaps we should wait to mention it.

                    In fact, I'm not sure there is any reason to send a letter at all (yet). Is there anything we actually need from him at the moment? Let's just wait for the time being. Meanwhile, I'll keep the letter in my Word folder for future use (and it might be a good idea for someone else to save it, too).
                    Civ2 Demo Game #1 City-Planner, President, Historian
                    Civ2 Demo Game #2 Minister of War,President, Minister of Trade, Vice President, City-Planner
                    Civ2 Demo Game #3 President, Minister of War, President
                    Civ2 Demo Game #4 Despot, City-Planner, Consul

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The letter is good, I have no complaints.

                      About sending the letter, I vote for it - it would be a nice thing to do, and also, I'd personally like to hear about this kind of project, if I had written the book. But it's true that the title is not a trademark or anything... does anyone of you Americans have a lawyer or law student friend who could be asked for this?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Why save the letter on my hard disk if it's on the internet cavebear?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I run an extensive search on internet hoping that someone scaned and uploaded the whole GGS book But sadly for me, no luck. I found out some other things:

                          - Bill Clinton is reading the book which proves "he is not power maniac" acording to Time magazine.

                          - author also has some other books, note the titles: "Why is Sex Fun?" and "The third chimpanzee" both of which are dealing in history of evolution.

                          - a lot of excerpts from the book - I think I understand it much better now.

                          I agree we should let him know - but perhaps not now and not that politely cavebear Anyway it was his wife who thought of the title so we may as well contact her.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            quote:

                            Originally posted by ElmoTheElk on 01-01-2001 07:51 PM
                            Why save the letter on my hard disk if it's on the internet cavebear?


                            Sites, forums, and posts all have a way of disappearing sometimes. I'm a strong believer in Murphy's Laws.
                            Civ2 Demo Game #1 City-Planner, President, Historian
                            Civ2 Demo Game #2 Minister of War,President, Minister of Trade, Vice President, City-Planner
                            Civ2 Demo Game #3 President, Minister of War, President
                            Civ2 Demo Game #4 Despot, City-Planner, Consul

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Was the letter sent?
                              If at first you succeed, you should be doing something tougher.

                              Comment

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