MarkG is praying: turn based, turn based, turn....

[Tree]

Although I am a huge fan of turn based strategy, the only way that I can actually see this game being implemented is with real time strategy. The whole survivalist feel of the game would be altered otherwise. It would be a lot more fun to be forced in real time which way to move the brontosaur herd in the midst of a T-Rex attack, or have to run away from the center of a natural disaster. This game would be a heck of a lot more intense as a real time strategy game. Another thing, with Sids other TBS games, there was always diplomatic implications to your actions, which required you to pause and think about what you were doing, with Dinosaurs, there isnt anything like that to really consider other than avoiding predators, and moving towards prey.

And I know Sid's not into this, but why not play this game from the first person view? I dont know if Firaxis has that great of 3d engine skill, but it would be interesting.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

And I know Sid's not into this, but why not play this game from the first person view? I dont know if Firaxis has that great of 3d engine skill, but it would be interesting.

Mostly because it wouldn't be a strategy game, then. Strategy and FPS are mutually exclusive.

As for TB/RT, a turn based game is even more intense for some people (*cough*me*cough*) than a real time game. Real time doesn't give the player a chance to think through what they're doing, or the larger picture of a game, or a myriad other things. Not only that, but turn based adds a feeling of anticipation that you can't get with real time, because you're always forced to think short-to-near term in real time, whereas turn based gives you the luxury of thinking far ahead.

[Jeje2]

Well, if it is real time I would like it to be something like X-Com Apocalypse were you can adjust the speed of the clock and even stop the clock to give new orders.

Turn based is fine with me, but in real time I want to able to play with the time.

[My Wife Hates CIV]

I know nothing about this dino game. Turn base is good for single play. Turn base kills CIV MP.

[War4ever]

I agree with MWHC.... although i am not sure that turn base would be any better for civ


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War is the answer when you need to strike first.

War is the answer when you think you should strike first

war is the answer when you think others may strike first.

[Hugo Rune]

"But will they move across the map turn-by-carefully plotted turn, as Sid mapped out in his initial prototype? Or will they rush, roar and retreat in real-time?"

Hmmm. When I read the section I got the impression that it might be a combination of both. They presented positive arguments for both, and let the question hang in suspense. A civ-type game with RTS elements?

"The attitude of the game is similar to Civilization..."

Hmmm...

[ACEofHeart]

Well,,, if it's a REAL-TIME game about a bunch of Godzillas, I simply won't buy it.
And I would think it would eventually have no place in a "Civilization" forum just because it has Sid's name on it .
Last time I looked I saw no "Gettysburg" forum here

[Adm.Naismith]

I don't want to criticize Dinosaurs, because we know almost nothing about it.
So, about Turn based or Real Time, I'm wondering which is best suited for the kind of game Dinosaurs will be, not as an abstract concept. I strongly prefer TB when strategy is a must, don't care too much if it isn't
So, please calm down and don't let Firaxis revert the problem into our mind: may be Le petit chaperon is right, and Firaxis only want to check fan reaction.
Or BCR is right, they will simply let us stop time and think into an RTS frame.
Oh, about the promised integration between the Sweep of time titles, I'm saddly thinking it wouldn't be more than a mere Marketing issue, nothing at all about loading saved games from Dino to Civ III to Smac II, as Monkey and MarkG are speaking of.

So Sid won't have any problem to mix RTS as Dino to TBS as CIV III - SMAC II.
Or at least, who know, Firaxis will change CIV III and SMAC II into RTS
[This message has been edited by Adm.Naismith (edited December 18, 1999).]

[Monkey]

Markos, would you still continue to cover this dinosaur game if it turns out to be an RTS with something more in common with AOK or starcraft rather than civ? Ace of Heart does have a point, there is NO Gettysburg forum here so it looks like Apolyton wants to remain pure civ as possible. After all we wouldn't want this place turning into another sidgames now would we?

[Atahualpa]

This is what DanQ said:

It's so we do not go crazy with the games that we cover. We are looking for quality in our sections and decided a good way to do this was to draw the line and only cover TBS', as has been the tradition of Civ games.

But, since this game fits in this sweep of time thing, it is a civ game (or at least has a direct relation to civ games). So, maybe they'll make an exception when they decide to make it RTS.

Btw, do you remeber the RT vs TB poll that Firaxis did some months ago? As far as I know most voted for TB.

ATa

[MarkG]

Monkey, yeah, I know, we took a chance there with Dan, cause we really want to keep apolyton a civ site. still, from the first diaries and main concepts it does seem like a civ game, and it is part of the sweep of time trilogy which will include civ3 and smac. so, I think we're still in the civ genre...

Ata, yeah, now that you say about the poll, I'm more encouraged.... they will listen to the people, wont they?

[Daniel Frappier]

I am a huge Turn Base fan. I gave a tried at a few RTS and the only one I play casually is AOK because I am a big history freak I guess and also because it is a reasonnably well made game even if there is room for lots of improvments.

I would love to see Sid cook a slow pace Dino RTS that would not be a clickfest where you actually have some time to admire the scenery and with deep strategic decisions. I think it is possible even if nobody as done that type of game before. I think that the RTS genre is young and that it stll as a lot of unexplored possibilities in it. At this time I have faith that Sid can be the man to give us something fresh and exciting.

In any case I don't want it to be a mix between TB and RTS, I hate that idea. Both type have a different feel and should remain separate.

[Eggman]

I wouldn't mind Real Time if they can make the game fun. By fun, I mean that it includes the following features:

1) No nitwit units. None of the AOE stupidity where units just stand there and get killed from a distance while waiting for orders or totally ignore enemy units in range while the enemy force slaughters them one at a time. That's no fun to see an entire force get wiped out because you were busy on the other side of the map and your units weren't smart enough to put up a standard defense.

2) No clickfest. I don't play strategy games to see how fast I can move my mouse. I don't need carpal tunnel syndrome.

3) Automate the boring stuff. In Rebellion, I had to reassign my espionage units EVERY TIME they finished a mission, even if it was just repeating the same mission for the entire game. Half the game was reassigning units to do stuff they should have been doing automatically, increasing my effort and frustration dramatically. If you do something stupid like that, I WILL NOT BUY IT. Make me concentrate on the big, fun things, not the boring paperwork. A patrol/waypoint feature would probably help.

4) A good, HIGHLY EFFICIENT interface. I want to be able to get information FAST and EASY. I don't want email style messaging that requires me to open a window and rewards speed reading over thinking. I don't want to have to click more than once or twice to get any information. I don't want to make eight clicks to do something.

5) Units that act like dinosaurs. Darn it, dinosaurs are not smart creatures. If they are hungry they go eat, perhaps getting lured into obvious traps (despite your orders) or busying themselves chowing down on fallen enemies instead of finishing off the fleeing survivors. Plant eaters panic if not properly trained. Feeding dinosaurs may not pay as much attention to enemies and may get ambushed. Predators will eat their allies when really hungry. Really stupid monsters may forget their orders and wander.

Furthermore, by automating the reactions of the various creatures, you create a real atmosphere in the game and reduces the click load (because I don't have to click them how to think).

6) Give me a chance to react. If something really big happens, give me some avenue to digest it before I get an ulcer while still making me think in real time. Autocentering, warnings, time stopping annoucements and the like would do wonders.

If anyone here gets the impression that I have been burned by bad RT games before, you're right. If you do this RT, do it right!

[St Leo]

Turn Based!

brontosaur

Brontosauri are the same as Apatosauri which were discovered first, thus the name is obsolete.

Darn it, dinosaurs are not smart creatures.

Correction, men in rubber suits from old movies pretending to be dinosaurs are not smart creatures. Dinosaurs were neither more nor less smart than equivalent mammals.:-)

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St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

[Biddles]

I agree with eggman. If it is going to be RTS, don't make it a click fest. None of the rushing crap that was in starcraft. Or stuff like on muchomoney maps where you just build photon cannons so fast that they don't have time to kill them all before they come on line.

Also an adjustable speed clock is a must. This is supposed to be strategy, if I can't stop and think about something it isn't true strategy.


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- Biddles

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