Cradle Middle Game Thoughts

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by J Bytheway
If you're worried about the long delay before scientists you could add a lesser scientist (providing 10, for example) at the beginning of the game. At least, I assume you can have more than one type of each specialist (it works in CTP1 fine).

It might be possible to have more then one specialist in CTP2, unfortunatly there are less possibilities in CTP2 for specialists they are all advance depending instaed of building depending. But unfortunatly I never saw the first pop here in action, ok it has no effect but it isn't there.

Locutus: In the case of doubt just consult the text files here is the CRA_pop.txt, so you see they add commerce, but actual I think commerce and gold are here equivalent.

-Martin

[SIZE=1]
## Mayors ignore the first pop record, this fixes the problem 
## with low happiness not being handled correctly by mayors. 
## (REM031501) 

POP_ZERO_IGNORED {
EnableAdvance ADVANCE_CLASSICAL_EDUCATION
Food 0
}

POP_ENTERTAINER {
   EnableAdvance ADVANCE_RELIGION
   Happiness 2
}

############################################################

POP_FARMER {
   EnableAdvance ADVANCE_AGRICULTURE
   Food 30
}

############################################################

POP_LABORER {
   EnableAdvance ADVANCE_ARCHITECTURE
   Production 30
}

############################################################

POP_MERCHANT {
   EnableAdvance ADVANCE_BUREAUCRACY
   Commerce 20
}

############################################################

POP_SCIENTIST {
   EnableAdvance ADVANCE_PHILOSOPHY
   Science 30
}

############################################################[/SIZE]

[Velociryx]

Here's a simple example of how that breaks down:

A size 8 town working 100% of all squares could reasonably expect to generate something in the neighborhood of 200 commerce. Less 20 for crime (assuming a 10% crime rate for simplicity) leaves you with 180. 60% of THAT total--early game, Dynasty period--is 108 science (multiplied by whatever science enhancers you have in place).

That same size 8 town, with nothing but farms surrounding it can be set up to have two people working the land to continue growing the city, and set the other six to scientists: 6 * 20 = 120 science (multiplied by your science enhancers).

That's pretty close.

-=Vel=-

[hexagonian]

It is pretty close, so the question becomes, what is the advantage to either choice. Each choice should have a benefit and a downside.

So are we in agreement that the numbers I finalized for the Specialists are good to go, or are there any suggestions to tweak them further? I do think that the numbers will help balance them and weaken their effectiveness in the later game.

The main concern is the midgame/late game issue that makes them overpowering, because I cannot really contol what the AI does with them as much as I would like. At this time the most effective fix seems to be what the enable advances will be for each Specialist, and a weakening of the numbers?

There are 5 slotted Specialists - it may be possible to add more, but I'm not sure it can be done

The way to test whether Merchant's gold affects science is to set up a test - if the use of a merchant generated more gold AND your science output also goes up, then that Merchant is helping science too.

[Velociryx]

I think the numbers are good as per your sugesstion above.

As to the benefits and downsides, to me, they are this:

The first city will have eight workers working. That's 100% of the first tier land and terraforming, which would include a not-inconsiderable amount of production power. That equates to faster troop builds or PW (since...and this is one of the coolio things about Cradle), you can set cities to investing in infrastructure pretty early on....I like that!.

So....in the first case, you'd have an advantage in production capacity, and in the second, you'd see an increase in science outputs (and this can truly be taken to extremes via the enslavement gambit, because you can set ALL citizens to scientists, let them starve (which won't happen right away in any case, and when it does, you'll only lose one point of pop per turn), and really rack up a significant science gain.

I'm diggin' it!

-=Vel=-