Hey, Vel!

[King of Rasslin]

Have you even played the first CTP? I did, and it was so bad I haven't even bothered with this one. I'm puzzled why you would like it, but now that it's selling for $10 I might get it. I love Civ 3 so much more than CTP, but my favorite would be AC. I switched to Civ 3 because the AC AI is truly pathetic, and it got boring.

Anyway, what do you CTP2 guys think of the first one? I didn't mod it because mods usually ruin game balance, but I have heard that there are 1 or 2 good mods for this one. I'm still angry that the first CTP would be so bad.

[Dale]

You know, this is what I find truelly amazing. The Civ3'ers don't play CTP2 because "you have to Mod it". Yet, with Civ3 they'll quite happily install 4 patches and Mods?!? What's the difference?

[SMIFFGIG]

Hey king of Rasslin... read carefully:

Its a general miss conception amongst people who have only played ctp1 and didnt like it, to think that ctp2 is the same (although they never tried it or tried it once) I have to admit, they look similar but thats about it.

My advice to you is simply pick up $10 rush out and get ctp2 then come here download the patch and moddswapper then the mod CRADLE from the downloads section. (and of course install the game)

Just do it. If you like civ games, this will be the best one you have played (i almost gaurentee that) however give it a good go and read around the forums for more info look at the sticky topic in this forum which is FAQ's youl learn alot.


I own Civ3, ctp1, ctp2, civ2 test of time and civ2

And modded CtP2 Is miles and miles the best out of them all.
And the best part is, its still being heavily modded with brand new features and civ3 features being worked on all the time


A worthy buy to say the least

[Maquiladora]

You say your puzzled why Velociryx would like it, and then you say you might buy it? Well if you only trust his opinion, take a look at some of the threads he started and the praise he gave it

Im always reluctant to use mods too, because i like to play the game the way it was primarily intended. So i play with Apolyton Pack mostly. It just makes the AI much harder but keeps the tech tree etc, so no chance of imbalances, not that ive noticed ANY imbalances in other mods.

Only the best Civ3 features are being worked on mind you, not the pain in the arse advisors or how sloooooow it runs or the fact the terrain looks like a 5 year old tried to paint with watercolours.
Try CtP2 in all its oil-painted glory!

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Dale
You know, this is what I find truelly amazing. The Civ3'ers don't play CTP2 because "you have to Mod it". Yet, with Civ3 they'll quite happily install 4 patches and Mods?!? What's the difference?

The difference is, that in Civ3 you have to install 1 patch (the latest, as it contains all others), to have a decent game even without mods.

In CtP2 you have (in that order) to install the 1.11 patch, the modswapper, a bunch of mods, to choose the right mod among many, with scarce descriptions what they do (here I made a terrible mistake, as I started with the most complicated), to deal with language and folder name issues (disclaimer: only if you have a localized version), to ask for help, to get help (thanks to some people here ), to edit text files to apply the help and then to learn a completely new game with completely new rules instead of the old and well known CtP2.

Some people are enthusiastic enough to do this, some have other things to do in their free time and seek only quick entertainment. It's like with operating systems. Some people have got the time and the skills to tinker with settings and write scripts. Such people use Linux and are able to do great things with it. Others can't be arsed to bother with all this and therefor prefer Windows, because it's, at the first look, safer and smoother running, especially for a newbie. Same with the games. Those who like to tinker with slics and a million of text files will prefer CtP2 and do really great things with it. Others want just to play and have fun. They will most certainly play Civ3. I'm in the middle. I use Linux and like to tinker with it, but can't be arsed to bother with CtP2 .

King of Rasslin, Call to Power 2 has been a good game and greatly helped me to shorten the time I had to wait for Civ3. Compared with CivCTP it's a big improvement, even though it doesn't look like at the first glance. If you expect an AI, I must disappoint you, because like in AC they forgot to include one. For an halfway difficult game you'll have to run a mod. Begin with a light one, like the Apolyton pack. Folks here will tell you, that Cradle and WaW are much bigger challenges. This may be true for the advanced player, but you don't believe them. Cradle and WaW are not for newbies of modded CtP2. Start with the vanilla game, then try the Apolyton pack (v1), then the Super Apolyton Pack (v2). Then you may try all others. If you make it that far. I could it not.

[mapfi]

I guess you're mostly right Ralph. I never found it that difficult to install mods for CtP2 though. Just because you're comparing it to linux - which is really difficult if you want it to work properly.
As for the mods - I wouldn't waste time on the Apolyton pack v1. In my experience the SAP v2 is still straight forward playing.

[Maquiladora]

I agree, SAP 2.0 is a solid game, apart from when the AI starts frenzying and they start to brawl around your cities. Then you just nip in behind them inside their empire and take all their cities My only gripe is they dont attack often when theyre outside your city, they just keep pillaging.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
The difference is, that in Civ3 you have to install 1 patch (the latest, as it contains all others), to have a decent game even without mods.

In CtP2 you have (in that order) to install the 1.11 patch, the modswapper, a bunch of mods, to choose the right mod among many, with scarce descriptions what they do (here I made a terrible mistake, as I started with the most complicated), to deal with language and folder name issues (disclaimer: only if you have a localized version), to ask for help, to get help (thanks to some people here ), to edit text files to apply the help...

No lie here - you will need a Mod to get a good CTP2 game.

I will not dispute that you probably have to jump through more hoops in order to get a good CTP2 game, but the point is that it is not as hard as you make it sound. The Activision patch and Modswapper are self extracting files that install themselves.

As for the Mods, SAP is as close as you can get to the default game, because it does not change anything other than the AI and tightens up the diplomacy. By it's very nature, it is a patch. GoodMod also falls into this camp, because it sticks with the default game.

Bottom line - you probably end up doing 10 mintes of work for CTP2 in installation as opposed to 2 minutes with civ3. Is that such a big deal??????

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
...and then to learn a completely new game with completely new rules instead of the old and well known CtP2.

Again, no lie here. The other main Mods are total rebuilds - Sir Ralph is right that there is a learning curve for all of them, because they all have new techs/units/wonders and all of them handle things in subtle and different ways. But they are all stable. Again you have to do a little more in the way of installing the files, but it is not that hard.

What CTP2 does offer, in terms of these Mods , could be considered CTP2 Expansion Packs. You have the opportunity to play the game with the same basic rules and concepts, but with a host of creative innovations and additions. Play a game that is focused on the Ancient age with Cradle... Play 20th century with WAW... Play with a totally rewritten tech tree with MedMod.

And because the community is small, these Mods have had a lot of coordinated effort to make them as good as they possibly can be.

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
King of Rasslin, Call to Power 2 has been a good game and greatly helped me to shorten the time I had to wait for Civ3. Compared with CivCTP it's a big improvement, even though it doesn't look like at the first glance. If you expect an AI, I must disappoint you, because like in AC they forgot to include one. For an halfway difficult game you'll have to run a mod.

I have to admit that I was somewhat stunned by Vel's endorsement of CTP2, especially the default game. I do think that if he continued to play the default game, he will see the limitations in the AI.

But if you look closely at his analysis, you will note that a lot of his excitement is tied into the basic structure of the game (the beauty of PW vs workers, the interface, the feeling of 'Empire building) These are all elements that are tied into preferences - how CTP2 handles these gameplay issues as opposed the how civ3 handles the issues. So if you played CTP1, and hated PW, don't expect to pick up CTP2 and see a difference in that area (although there is now a SLIC file that allows for civ3-style workers in CTP2.)

I have played both civ3 and CTP2 - ultimately I prefer CTP2 because of these preference issues.

I agree, SAP 2.0 is a solid game, apart from when the AI starts frenzying and they start to brawl around your cities. Then you just nip in behind them inside their empire and take all their cities

Not much different from civ3 when I get a slew of tanks and can carve through enemy cities, then raze them to keep going...

[Harovan]

Originally posted by hexagonian
I have to admit that I was somewhat stunned by Vel's endorsement of CTP2, especially the default game. I do think that if he continued to play the default game, he will see the limitations in the AI.

I'm sure he will. Just like he will see the rampant environment pollution and the lack of possibilities to deal with it (in CivCTP I could build the Gaia controller, here too, but oops, that's the end of game), the worthless diplomacy in the vanilla game and the annoying piracy, all things that are toned down with the mods.

[centrifuge]

Come on people... , not another one...

I didn't like Civ-CTP at first either, but that was before I gave it a decent chance, the same thing must be done with CTP2, and for that matter Civ3. They are all worthy editions to the genre, and all with there strengths and weaknesses. Fortunately at least with one of these games (not mentioning any names... just paying attention to the forum that I'm in...) the majority of the weaknesses and/or preference issues can be fixed without bugging the game designer.

[child of Thor]

Here we go! Look Ralphy baby WE KNOW you don't like CTP1/2 very much. So stick to Civ3 which you know much better and like alot more.
If a few more people want to give CTP2 a go what's it to you?
I get about 2-8 hours a week to play any game, as i have alot of other things to do in my life. So i play CTP2,EU2 and Shogun-Total war.
I'm just incredibly gratefull that some good people here have taken time to improve this game and continue to do so, so stop your belly-aching and leave us in peace!

[Harovan]

This place hasn't changed at all. I should have known it. Ok I'll give you peace.

[Pedrunn]

CoT, I think he is just showing his point. We are not as desperate to get players as i were in the last year they just keep coming. He is welcome to do this.
But i've got to addimit i cant take another CTP2 x CIV3 discussion anymore. It all comes to same stuff:

1) CTP2 is matter of liking or not some concepts that are different from Civ3 although we can simulate any Civ3 feature since CTP2 gives almost infinite mod powers. We just cant change the interface (so if you dont like the interface at all CTP2 just isnt the game for you).

2) The AI of the default game is poor. You need Apolyton Pack (read lastest pacth here) to fix it.

3) The whole bunch of mods are not needed. They are like totally new games for free with CTP2 interface. And they are very easy to install (just unzip in the CTP2 directory)

4) The worst it could happen to try it is loose a few 9,99 - 14,99 US dollars.


- End of discussion (I hope)

EDIT: Sir Ralph i hope you dont leave us without reading this post therefore with hard-feelings.
You just asnwered quicker than i could type it.

[Locutus]

Guys,
Be a little bit nicer to Sir Ralph, will you?! I don't usually agree with him either but that mean his opinion shouldn't be respected (even if he might exaggerate things a little - it's not like CtP2ers have never exaggerated Civ3's downsides)...

[Locutus]

King of Rasslin,
Why exactly did you think CtP1 was so bad? If you can tell us that, we can tell you if CtP2 will be worth the while for you. Like others said, if you just don't like the concept of PW or stacked combat, you'd better run back to the safety of the Civ3 forums, but if you didn't like the game balance or interface or something like that, it could well be that (modded) CtP2 is just what you were waiting for...
(Don't worry, we (well, most of us) will respect your opinion and won't bash you for dissing the game or anything, not as long as it's founded on reasonable arguments anyway)