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  • Strategy observations for a Newbie, FROM a Newbie

    Feels strange to be referring to myself as a Newbie, but that, in a very real sense, is exactly the case here. Sure, I've spent a lot of time playing strategy games in general, but CtP2 is brand new to me, and from what I have seen in my limited forrays into the game thus far, it stands to have the kind of depth and intricate inner-workings that I have been hoping to find.

    From what I have seen so far, it's a simply stunning system! Best 19 bucks I ever spent on a computer game!

    What I'd like to do is make my newbie observations here exactly as they occur to me in-game, and if they're inaccurate or just downright wrong, I expect the CtP2 vets who might follow the development of this thread to correct my newbie mistakes. With luck, time, and games under my belt, the end result will be an ever-growing, quite good strat thread that others who take the time to discover just how cool the game really is can read, and get off to a running start!

    So....first thing, and this may well show my newbie status better than anything else....I started my first (and only, so far) game as the Scots, and accepted all game defaults, which means Medium difficulty level. The game opener saw me with two (2) settler units--note to self: this may be variable, depending on difficulty level, and as such, may not be a universal rule of thumb, BUT! For the moment, two settlers....that's a familiar scene, hearkening back to SMAC days (transcend level play, two colony pods at game start).

    Right away, I knew how to handle this, then, and felt quite comfortable with the setup.

    I also decided that there was no compelling reason NOT to use use my usual Civ-style city spacing (with three blank tiles between cities, or, put another way, cities four tiles apart), so this led me to my first real strategic decision.

    The same thinking that held true in SMAC *should* hold true in CTP2....that being, the most efficient use of those initial two settlers is to move them both on turn one, in opposite directions to get rapid spacing between them. (this, as opposed to building a city on turn one, and moving the other). Turn two sees me moving both settlers again, and now they're in position for building both cities on turn three (this, as opposed to building a city on turn one, and then having to wait until turn five to build the second city) - Caveat....since rivers effectively double your movement rate, rivers are of CRUCIAL early game importance, and founding cities on rivers seems the best move, not only for commerce bonus (I'm assuming that, in any case), but also for the sake of speed--if you're already ON the river moving, it's easy enough to set up shop there).

    Thus, my first conclusion: Rivers are the BEST thing you can hope to see on the opener, even if the terrain surrounding the river is marginal....the speed bonus of being able to get both cities set up quickly FAR outweighs the long-term impacts of marginal city spots in the early game.

    First priority after getting those cities founded is to train some explorers, and warriors are perfect in this role, so as a rule of thumb, we get, found city, build warrior to explore, build Hoplite to defend with, and fortify him in town.

    That gets you set up where exploration, offense/exploration, and defense are concerned.

    And of course, your exploring warriors are lookin' for new city sites and cashing in on those juicy "goody huts."

    Growth: The best thing you can do for yourself in the early game is to make a farmer specialist and jack up that food production to help the city grow faster! A size one city won't produce much anyways, so it's not like you're losing a lot.

    Other stuff to consider early on:
    * Lower the science tax - not much need in having a wampum big science tax when you have no real scientific base to work with.

    * Raise the length of workday for your people

    * Increase their pay, to offset the increase in workday (countermand the happiness hit)

    * Leave their ration the same, or lower it slightly if you find yourself flush with cash and can raise wages further to offset this added unhappiness hit (more food = faster growth, faster growth = more population, more population = more of everything).

    * Lower public works tax 10-20%. In the early goings, all you're really gonna need are 1-2 farms and some roads for each of your towns....can't get mines and such till you have a few techs under your belt anyway, so you might as well squeeze out as much raw production as you can in makin' scouts, settlers, and defenders.

    * USE the rushbuy button! Cash seems to be VERY easy to come by in this game, ESPECIALLY if you build a few of your cities near goods, with an eye toward trade routes a bit later (err...at least, if I'm understanding the way caravans work!).

    * Roads = Mobility! In the early goings, make use of rivers whevever possible, but when you spend your PW points, spend them on food first (if you have a new town that has no farm) and roads as a close second. Connect rivers with roads leading to them to get a bit more mileage out of your fledgling road network!

    Combined arms: Make an army as soon as you're able to, with at least three units in it. If you get an archer unit from a goody hut, so much the better....stick him in an army with a warrior and a hoplite, and you've got a mean trio....add a second archer as you can (either via goody hut or ballistics tech), and you've got a relatively mean, ancient era force. The thing is...with armies set up like they are, a force that has lossa missile troops and/or flanking units in it can CREAM a force made up entirely of footsloggers, even if that force is many times larger....take advantage of that, and set yourself up for the win with good army composition!

    Feats of Wonder: The presence of the 'Circumnavigation' Feat of Wonder is an outstanding reason to get a boat in the water ASAP! That makes a coastal city of high importance as you explore! If your first two cities aren't on the coast, I'd make it a point to plant the third one there, and build a boat first thing!

    Also, the "recapture what was once yours" feat of wonder can be a GODSEND if you time it right....given the limit on your number of cities, if you can conveniently arrange to lose one of your cities at about the same time you begin violating the city limit on Tyrannical governments, you can buy yourself some more time to make the switch to something kinder and gentler.

    Slavers! They rule! They give you extra slaves any time an enemy unit is lost in battle! if your army does not have a slaver in it, you're missing out! Slaves = production! Get some from a barbarian horde near you (or any convenient neighbor!)

    More later....almost time to go home and continue my game!

    -=Vel=-
    The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

  • #2
    Re: Strategy observations for a Newbie, FROM a Newbie

    Excellent so far - some of the strategy tips will be harder to achieve in a mod like Cradle though...here's some examples of things to be aware of when you make the jump to a Mod like Cradle

    1. Cash is too plentiful in the default game.
    1a. Cash is a lot more valuable in Cradle because you will also need it to upgrade units - so players will have to decide to either upgrade or RB, and missing out of the upgrade sequence can be dangerous for your military.

    Plus RB costs have been greatly increased in Cradle from the default game.

    2. Sliders are too easily used in the default game, especially early in the game.
    2a. Sliders in Cradle are very costly in happiness penalties - and many times you can only get one click from a slider at the cost of 2 clicks elsewhere - or liberal use of entertainers.
    Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
    ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

    Comment


    • #3
      One thing to note: since CtP2 has variable city limits and also a limit on the total number of cities you can have (well, it's not a hard limit but the happiness penalty can be severe), it might be useful to keep slightly more space between the cities than you're used to in Civ/SMAC. That way cities can grow larger and your empire controls more territory. I usually try to keep at least 5-6 tiles between cities, so the limit can at least grow to 3 tiles in all my major cities. Especially the first cities need a lot of room, as they also tend to become your largest cities later on in the game.

      Also, a high happiness has little or no bonus in CtP2, so you really want to keep it as low as possible, so you can max out other things like food, production or science. So don't be afraid to max out workdays, rations and wages. Personally I aim to keep all cities at 73, some other people here even don't mind accepting the occasional riot and aim at 71-72.

      Although I always keep science at a max myself (but I'm a very scientific player, I don't know how others do this), the rest of the stuff you posted makes sense.

      I hope for you you're on your way home by now!
      Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

      Comment


      • #4
        Vel:

        Great to see you trying out CTP2. It's an honour to see the great strat writer take on CTP2. *bows humbly*

        BTW, don't take "default/vanilla/original" CTP2 too heavily for your strats. When you jump to a Mod, be it Apolyton Pack, Med Mod, Cradle, Goodmod or World at War, you'll find things very different. For instance, in SAP and Cradle, you'll definitely want to keep your science rolling. Even if it's only one extra science point per turn, the AI gets such a lead in techs that it's very hard to come back. Basically, in most games you'll probably find your knights 'n pikes versus muskets and cannons at one point.

        Don't worry about the sliders. In vanilla CTP2, the manual is wrong. You can drop to 73 happiness, no riots. Max out food, prod and comm. You'll laugh all the way to the bank.

        Also, like Hex said, don't get to reliant on money.

        Remember too that slaves have a downside, the Emancipation Act. If you have slaves, GET THIS WONDER!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Dale
          Remember too that slaves have a downside, the Emancipation Act. If you have slaves, GET THIS WONDER!
          Indeed, make sure you get that wonder. However, also make sure you get it as late in the game as possible, to max out the time in which you can take advantage of slaves.
          Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

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          • #6
            "I am but an egg" compared with the others who have responded so far (bows humbly to the Mod Masters). This is a Cradle vs Vanilla tip: warriors in Cradle don't flank, so the equivalent trio (warrior+spearman+slinger) is a bit of a waste of effort, as the warrior stands shoulder to shoulder with the spearman while one of them gets hacked to death, and only then does the survivor take his first swing. The second grunt doesn't do much good until the opposition fields two of their own. Naturally, I try to get missile weapons (for slingers) and horses (for javelin cavalry) ASAP to get the deadly grunt+flanker+missile combo.
            "...your Caravel has killed a Spanish Man-o-War."

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            • #7
              I'am rather surprised to hear you can set happiness as low as 73 or 74, I usually try to maintain happiness as high as 76 in every city as the few times I let it evolve to 75 or lower I have been faced with riots.

              May be I have been unlucky, I will try this tactic in the game I'am currently playing with the SAP.
              "Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill

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              • #8
                Tamerlin:

                SAP actually changes the riot level to 75, so the 73-74 level only works with vanilla CTP2.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The number of initial settlers really depends on the difficuilt setting and on the mod you use. Expect to find you in ApolytonPack only with one settler on hard level. (Don't know how it does look on medium.) The second settler is a huge advantage in the game, for example if you have two cities at the beginning you have also two times the science output at the start.

                  Another tip to found a costial city as first city is to move on the river to one side. If you selected the right side you find the coast. If you are not on a river then move the settler a little bit around. You can also see that the tiles have borders so you can see if the adjacent tile could be a coastial tile, unfortunatly it could be a desert tile, too.

                  -Martin
                  Civ2 military advisor: "No complaints, Sir!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tamerlin
                    I will try this tactic in the game I'am currently playing with the SAP.
                    73 and 74 are also riotous in Cradle.
                    "...your Caravel has killed a Spanish Man-o-War."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard
                      73 and 74 are also riotous in Cradle.
                      Yeah, you lose that nice, soft (+2) cushion in Cradle...
                      Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
                      ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Important note to self: The terrain that a town is founded on is VERY important to take note of! 'specially if you're attacking the town with mounted troops. If you win, and the town is in terrain that the mounties can't go into, they all die. ::GULP!::

                        -=Vel=-
                        firsthand discovery, upon losing NINE knights upon burning down an enemy size one town, and proudly taking no losses during the battle....then, much to my horror, my most powerful force simply vanished....*sigh*
                        The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dale
                          Tamerlin:

                          SAP actually changes the riot level to 75, so the 73-74 level only works with vanilla CTP2.
                          Thanks for the tip Dale. I will keep to a 76 "happiness".

                          By the way, I have stopped working on the SAP french translation for a few month but I think I will soon have
                          the time and the will to start it again. The second half of the Great Library is the only part that has not been translated so far. I plead guilty your honor...
                          "Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Velociryx
                            Important note to self: The terrain that a town is founded on is VERY important to take note of! 'specially if you're attacking the town with mounted troops. If you win, and the town is in terrain that the mounties can't go into, they all die. ::GULP!::
                            Second note: when faced with a huge pile of boulders on a hillside, do NOT yank the bottom rock from the downhill side.
                            "...your Caravel has killed a Spanish Man-o-War."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tamerlin
                              By the way, I have stopped working on the SAP french translation for a few month but I think I will soon have
                              the time and the will to start it again. The second half of the Great Library is the only part that has not been translated so far. I plead guilty your honor...
                              That's good to hear, Tamerlin, I feared you had given up already (I thought of doing a Dutch translation myself but the humongous Great Library file strike my heart with fear )

                              Hermann,
                              Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

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