Strategy observations for a Newbie, FROM a Newbie

[Velociryx]

Other random strat notes:

Barbarians seem to spawn in areas which are covered over by the fog of war.

Barbarians are annoying (tho they are a good source of slaves).

The solution then, is twofold:
a) begin pulling out-dated units out of your cities as newer ones become available, and use these as spotter units to help dispel fow.

b) keep a smallish, but easily controlled/contained region "in the dark" and use this as a spawning ground for barbs. Keep a medium-sized army with a slaver handy in that region to bust the barbs up and generate some free labor for your empire. (refinement - if you want to generate slave labor in multiple quarters of your empire, it may be wise to have at least two, possibly three such regions scattered about your empire, especially if they are easily controlled (ie - chokepoint leading to a smallish nub of land).

-=Vel=-

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Barbarians seem to spawn in areas which are covered over by the fog of war.

Well, usually. But if they run out of room, they *can* be created within line of vision as well. They seem to prefer Fog of War, but this is not a hard limit. But in spite of this, your strategy probably still works though, most of the time anyway... Great idea, BTW

[Velociryx]

Public Works - Other notes to self kept here in the public fora

Roads are of utmost importance in the early game, for a variety of reasons, and because of that, "Trade" is one of the most compelling early game techs. Nothing says 'We Have Arrived' quite like trade goods increasing your wealth and a budding road network!

Plus, roads help speed your continuing expansion, and are invaluable when maneuvering troops.

When making improvements to a given city, don't do it half-arsed! If you mean to improve a target city, then go all out and improve all six tiles surrounding the city square. Do this because of the way in which production and such are calculated. Spreading six terrain improvements out over six different cities is not NEARLY as efficient or as effective as bulk terraforming one city at a time.

Terraforming rule of thumb: first six tiles, 3 farms, 3 mines, next ring, split farms and mines evenly to make up half, and make the other half trading posts. Plenty of food, plenty of production, lossa coin. Subject to terrain considerations, of course.

-=Vel=-
(makin' notes here so I don't forget anything)

[Velociryx]

Thanks man....just jotting down notes to myself so I don't forget stuff I wanna experiment with further in my own games

-=Vel=-

[Locutus]

Notes to yourself, but not just for yourself They're great, keep it up

[centrifuge]

Originally posted by Locutus
Notes to yourself, but not just for yourself They're great, keep it up

Absolutely, Vel!! Great job, I'm having a ball reading all of your "notes" There's some very insightful stuff there.

[Velociryx]

Well, in that case, I'll have to start one more game and make use of all the stuff I've I've been learning 'bout since I started reading here (tho I think I will NOT abandon my Egyptian game entire...the on-going war has just been too much fun!), and start with...Oh...I guess it doesn't really matter, since no civ has a unique ability...guess the biggest differences then, are city style and names....but I DO hope I get a better mix of starting techs next time! The ones I wound up starting with this go 'round just weren't my first picks....LOL Anyway, will see if I can write up something that approaches an AAR in its style and substance....

-=Vel=-

[Hermann the Lombard]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Terraforming rule of thumb: first six tiles, 3 farms, 3 mines, next ring, split farms and mines evenly to make up half, and make the other half trading posts.

Eight tiles in the inner ring. I like to have some trading posts early on, especially in Cradle where you need cash for upgrading units (wads of it; a typical upgrade at Iron Working will easily exceed 22,000 gold). Also in Cradle you don't get 1/6 of the resources per pop point as you do in the base game, you get (sensibly) 1/8 (inner ring, of course).

[Velociryx]

Economics, Call To Power Style (Econo 101 Course Notes, Courtesy, The School of Hard Knocks!)

Am playing my first game on Impossible level….started it this weekend just for kicks, and I’m gonna win it. Oh, I’m not one of the top contenders now, according to the overall power chart score, but the issue has already been decided, and it’s been decided in my favor.

How’s that?

Simply because I have unlocked the secrets that make the economy hum in CtP2. I can use that to dominate first the continent I started on, and then the world.

The key to the game, as I have discovered, lies in Public Works….specifically, in your public works tax rate. Regardless of your starting situation or level of play, what you MUST do, in order to really bring your empire to life as the fire-breathing behemoth it can truly be, is engineer a period of peace after achieving a critical mass of cities (think Monarchy or Republic, and twelve to twenty cities). However you have to get to that point, do it, and while you’re doing it, forget about PW. Zero to ten percent is all you need, because your primary focus is gonna be building basic stuff, and to do that quickly, you need every bit of your ancient era economy firmly focused dominating your starting region, if not your continent (this depends primarily on how many opponents you face on your continent, and its overall size….in my Impossible game, for instance, my starting continent is vast, but I found myself squashed between four (arguably five) considerably larger powers, and there was simply no way I could eat the continent in one bite. Instead, I focused on a couple of strategic choke points that enclosed a sufficient area to allow me to reach that critical mass I spoke of.

As with most games of this genre, the hardest level of difficulty is much more combat oriented than the lower levels of play, and mass combat is not really my thing, but….just to say I had done it, of course, I had to tackle that particular beast.

In this game, I’m playing the Celts (AAR-style report to follow, at the conclusion of this game), and was utterly hemmed in by the Russians to the North (and the English and Spanish), the Americans to the west, and the Dutch to the south. Had enough room for my capitol and ONE additional city. One.

That was it for me, but it didn’t matter.

I was blessed to have started with both tool making and ballistics, and so I had all the ingredients I needed to start kicking names and taking a$$…..er…something like that…. And that’s precisely what I did. Set the economy to maximize production at my paltry two cities till I had a burgeoning ancient era military and started hacking my way westward.

When the last American city fell, I had carved out a smallish nation for myself….ten cities, and even tho it killed me in terms of happiness (still under tyranny), I kept right on trucking, cos on Impossible level, the baddies don’t give you much breathing room. So I scratched and clawed and fought my way through waves of Russian, Dutch, and Spanish armies until I MADE them leave me alone. I made them do that by ignoring everything but the biggest and best military units I could afford, and in such quantity that they simply could not sweep me aside. I made them leave me alone by shamelessly tech-following. Letting the big dogs of the world achieve first discoveries and I simply and shamelessly followed in their footsteps when the techs were cheaper thanks to general proliferation of knowledge. Eventually, when the larger, more established empires of the world realized that I would not be moved from the territory I staked out as my own, they all approached ME with offers of peace. I never left my home territory. Never acted out in anger, not even when enemy slavers would make off with my population. We simply defended what was ours, and in the end, we won a fragile peace (a peace that has recently been broken as I write this….cursed Russians!).

Once I had that window of opportunity. Once I had enough military to protect what was mine from any foreign power, I was able to shift economic gears and do something amazing.

Public Works tax went from ten (I had ten just so I could build roads between my cities) to seventy percent. Rations rose dramatically and wages rose nominally as our workday was maxed out. End result, nearly a thousand points of public works, each and every turn.

First step was to stop barbarian incursions, so fortresses were built through the length and breadth of our fledgling empire, pushing back the darkness and providing a generalized sense of security for our people. Second step, massive investment in a military road network, making sure I had redundant routes, switchbacks, and loops in place. After that, food. Partly, this was to offset the greater rations we were doling out, and part of it was simple economics. More people = more workers. Next, production….more production, given our massive PW rate, means that each turn, we get even MORE PW points. The entire system spirals up and up and up….and so did our overall ranking. In next to no time, we went from barely a blip on the ol’ global radar, to a position surpassing one of my former enemies, The Russ, and being neck and neck with several others.

Of course, the game leaders are still some distance off, but the fact is that the massive infusion of PW points during this period of militarily enforced peace was essential to my success. Having maxed out my food and production, the last (but certainly not least) element was, of course, commerce. More money for rush buying (which is essential under this plan, since you have almost no city production), and more coin for science, so my tech following plan picked up considerable speed, and advances started falling into my lap in 2-4 turns, instead of 6-10. The Celtic empire was truly emerging, and our strength was becoming apparent.

Economy rules all, and the power of Public Works is simply too huge to ignore. The ability to make 1000+ points of improvements EVERY TURN is the kind of power that can turn a struggling nation into an empire in the truest sense of the word.

Want to see the effect in action? Best way would be to keep checking your army manager as you make these massive investments, and watch the “upkeep as a percentage of your total economy” falls to near nothing. Mine started at 38% when I began my investment binge, and is now hovering at 11% (climbing again, as I begin to gear up for another war with the Russians, who broke peace with me).

Economy.

As an economist by education, I really, really like that in this game, it’s not JUST about military might. Military might will only take you so far. It’s the engine that GOT me to critical mass, and so is vitally important, but it’s my economy that’ll keep me there….and then some….

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Double post hunted down and eaten....

-=Vel=-

[FrustratedPoet]

way to double post there mate! a full 30 mins between posts.

this game is starting to sound more and more interesting. since it is so damn cheap now I may be tempted to give it a go. Public Works in particular sounds very cool - i hate micromanaging workers in Civ3!

[Velociryx]

LOL....thanks guy....not quite sure how that happened, either?! Mayhaps I need to lay off of the time travel experiments, eh?

Yes....a highly recommended game, and learning the ins and outs of it has given me a vast, vast pool of ideas for use in CB. The depth and types of statistics offered here for empire management, the strength of PW and the economic model in general, the sense of empire....all of it combines to create a deep, truly outstanding game experience.....

-=Vel=-

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Hey Vel,

I should be getting my copy of CTP2 here shortly. Question, am I to understand that there is no inherent distinguishing characteristic defining each civlization. Shame if thats the case because one of the things I enjoyed in SMAC and CIV3 was learning the game from a different perspective/civilization and fine tuning that game plan accordingly. (Civ3 less so IMHO than say SMAC).

The ability to run a game in so many different modes made each of those games have more replayability (again SMAC moreso than say CIV3). I speak to linear gaming. Does CTP2 appear to be too linear?

[Velociryx]

::nodding:: that's one of the things I was a bit disappointed in....the fact that each Civ is pretty much the same as every other civ, and it doesn't have to BE that way cos the tech tree is so vast.....seems like it'd be easy enough to give each civ it's own unique mix of techs (you get three at random at game start, but imagine a game where the vikings always started with ship building, etc.)....I think this *could be* moddable....least that's the early buzz.....I hope so, cos that would be truly awesome! (another possibility....civ-specific feats of wonder/events that are used to give each group a unique set of strengths to play to/weaknesses to cover).

Overall tho, even with the identical nature of all civs, the game does not come across as linear because there are so dang many ways to approach the tech tree (hearkening back to SMAC in that regard). There are so many variant approaches and unconventional units (lawyers, clerics, televangelists, slavers, etc), that it's almost dizzying!

-=Vel=-

[Pedrunn]

seems like it'd be easy enough to give each civ it's own unique

mix of techs (you get three at random at game start, but imagine a game where the vikings always started with ship building, etc.)....I think this *could be* moddable....least that's the early buzz.....I hope so, cos that would be truly awesome! (another possibility....civ-specific feats of wonder/events that are used to give each group a unique set of strengths to play to/weaknesses to cover).

All that is possible. And not very hard to do. The only really difficulty is the number of civs . But that could be decreased or increased as you like.

The specific beggining advances code is as hard as this:

Note: It only grants advance for the vikings (ship building), egyptians (tool making), greeks (philosophy).

CIVILIZATION_TYPE[];
CIVILIZATION_ADVANCE[];

HandleEvent(BeginTurn) 'GrantSpecificAdvances' post {
int_t i;

CIVILIZATION_TYPE[0] = CivilizationIndex("VIKING");
CIVILIZATION_ADVANCE[0] = advanceDB(ADVANCE_SHIP_BUILDING);

CIVILIZATION_TYPE[1] = CivilizationIndex("GREEK");
CIVILIZATION_ADVANCE[1] = advanceDB(ADVANCE_PHILOSOPHY);

CIVILIZATION_TYPE[2] = CivilizationIndex("EGYPTIAN");
CIVILIZATION_ADVANCE[2] = advanceDB(ADVANCE_TOOLMAKING);

// Template
//CIVILIZATION_TYPE[*] = CivilizationIndex("");
//CIVILIZATION_ADVANCE[*] = advanceDB();

	if(IsplayerAlive(player[0])
	&& GetCurrentRound() == 0) {
		for(i = 0; i < CIVILIZATION_TYPE.#; i = i + 1) {
			if(PlayerCivilization(player[0]) == CIVILIZATION_TYPE[i]) {
				GrantAdvance(player[0], CIVILIZATION_ADVANCE[i]);
			}
		}
	}
}