*WONDER* why this is.

[Jerk]

Petty petty petty. Yes the Wonders are named stupidly in some cases but I don't think the name of the Wonders alters gameplay greatly. Let's start arguing about the effects the wonders have. That DOES effect gameplay and balance.

As for particular wonders that arent really wonders, I'll see what I do to alter the game and make them 'accomplishments' instead of Wonders. That way things like the Zero Crime Bill won't deeply offend some people.

Keep in mind that wonders are highly changable with a bit of editing. Anyone can go in and rename them as they wish. If the movies offend that much, turn them off. I always turn them off after finishing off my first game anyways.

I never kept count of which wonders were built by what nation. My concern was what good they would do for me if I built them.


- Jerk -

Who is now modifying civilisation.txt and changing all the civs to US state names. Whine on!
[This message has been edited by Jerk (edited December 21, 2000).]

[Alpha Wolf]

quote: Originally posted by Jerk on 12-21-2000 12:53 AM Who is now modifying civilisation.txt and changing all the civs to US state names. Whine on! [This message has been edited by Jerk (edited December 21, 2000).]

You should name the civs to their nicknames: like cheeseheads, FIBs, Hoosiers, old folks who cant punch a ballot, and such.

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History is written by the victor.

[Jerk]

Speaking of cheeseheads perhaps I'll make the civs based on NFL teams. Thanks for the idea

Seriously though, I'd like to see some suggestions on improving what the wonders do. You can read my gripe about the global satellite at http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum26/HTML/000107.html

For the "old folks who cant punch a ballot" maybe we can make a new wonder called "The Universal Ballot" buildable by Republics or Democracy governments that gives happiness since all votes are counted on a universal ballot and counted equally. The canadians made us look bad by settling their election before the United States even though they voted for President after we did. I vote they get it

[This message has been edited by Jerk (edited December 21, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Jerk (edited December 21, 2000).]

[Alpha Wolf]

In general I dont like Wonders at all. I'd prefer to a national benefit and a feat of wonder to the first to build it. In reality, if one civ built globesat you can bet most of the rest will follow behind. So for this example, the first to build globesat would get an additional 2 hit points per unit for 10 turns since they could see the enemy coming and be prepared or to plan some ambushes. Or even have the benefit last until the other civ builds globesat.

[Alpha Wolf]

quote: Originally posted by Jerk on 12-21-2000 05:42 AM Speaking of cheeseheads perhaps I'll make the civs based on NFL teams. Thanks for the idea

You could have one civ be football, another baseball, another basketbal.....LOL

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History is written by the victor.

[mosquitodriver]

thats a great idea, the cheeseheads and the green bay packers will rule the world and all the wonders will be from wisconsin, im going to rewrite history and force the british and french to eat cheese to stop their whining.

eat that!

[Alpha Wolf]

likethe brits and frenchies would EVER stop whining.

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History is written by the victor.

[Mike the Nuke]

quote: Originally posted by Alpha Wolf on 12-19-2000 11:51 AM There are so many bogus wonders in this game, that I cant believe you are all arguing over which country they come from. Wonders are supposed to be unique, so how could the WIA, penicillin, or globesat be wonders if more than one country has them? I wish they'd replace Wonders with national improvements that could be bought by any civ. That would also end the arguement on whether Wonders have too much of an unbalancing effect. What about the Magna Carta, Code of Hammarabi, the TVA, I'd even say the roman road system. These are more worthy of Wonder status.

I agree 100 (no make that 1000)% I remember in CTP-1 seeing Contraception as a Wonder. Wow! What brands (Trojans, etc). Geez, if one civilization can invent the "pill" or "rubber", whay can't others. Even 3rd world countries now have devices of contraception available. I think the Wonders should only improve happiness through pride of that civilization in it's Wonder(s) it has built. Globesat was always stupid. Only one civilization/country can develop satelites to expose the planet? Gee, I guess the Russians (in the old USSR) had no satelite data of the U.S. Then, of course, 'Cloaking' came along and all civilizations/countries were "cloaked" from that civilization/country that had 'Globesat', even if they didn't research 'cloaking'. TRASH the Wonders for all purposes other than happiness (through national pride). All other benefits (food, military strength, defense, etc) should be researched and be able to be researched by all. And, yes, for all those just dying to tell me that Cloaking (and possibly Globesat) are not part of CTP-2, but part of CTP-1, I say, "no S___!" I was just using them as an example. I do not yet own CTP-2 (it does not have Hot Seat yet), but it still uses Wonders for things other than 'happiness' through pride of achievement. Hoover Damn, I believe, is a Wonder. Look at all the special things the U.S has that no other civilization/country has. just because of Hoover Damn. Same applies for the Empire State Building, Eifel Tower, Leaning Tower of Pisa (spelling?), pyramids, stonehenge (scientists today still aren't sure of it's purpose).

And after reading all the stuff on this site....I'm glad I haven't bought CTP-2. Same old stuff (with a couple of 'twists'), different cover. Seems to need patches to fix the patches. The Jury, except for those given copies from the manufactureer, should still be (way) out on this game.

I personally bought CTP-1 (after having played Civ1 & Civ2) because it offered sea colonies and space (unfortunately neither was done exceptionally well and space turned out to be nothing more than space stations and has been (rightfully so) left out of CTP2. I was hoping to colonize other planets (aka Alpha Centuri, Civ2-TOT). CTP-1 also seemed to offer a few new (or maybe improved) units and better graphics. It turns out that the Sid Meir group did a much better job (heads and shoulders) above the Activision folks at rating non-imaginary (real life units) such as Battleships, Aircraft Carriers (and having a supply of aircraft for this ship), etc. Both games had flaws with "bow and Arrow guys" shooting down jet aircraft and taking out tanks, etc. CTP-1 seemed to have a better trade method (in my opinion) than the Civ2 game, though the latter was more realistic in making sure that you got the trading vehicle (camel or truck) to the location to be traded with.

CTP-2 (by reading what I've read all over this site) seems to be CTP-1 with more diplomacy with my computer (excuse me....computer AI) and more 'bugs'.

Hey, if they start working on CTP3, they might have it out in time for next Christmas (a little sarcasm) and CTP4 could be out before Christmas 2002 (a little added sarcasm).

"Of course, it's just a game, only a game. Any similarity between this game and anything in 'real life' is purely coincidental."

and....

"Ho, ho, ho ....Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night"

[Grumbold]

They had to pick some cheesy wonders to avoid massice conflict with the original Civ licencee. Every time someone starts a Wonders list theyre is a huge fight over how many are genuine, anyway. I think CtP2 managed rather neutral names for some of the wonders. "The Agency" could be anything. Their reuse of chopped up shorter clips from CtP1 wonders was disappointing.

Like others, I don't believe a "Wonder" should be anything that gets duplicated. People should build and launch satellites until they have 100% coverage. Equally every nation should build the Internet to plug themselves in and gain the benefits.

[red_jon]

If Activision COULDN'T use wonders from Civ2, why do they have the pyrmaids? (Which, ultimate skank, used clips from the INTRO movie).

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"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill

"Gotta love me"- Baby, Dinosaurs

[MrFun]

The reason I have not posted any concerns regarding this petty subject is because I usually do not cry over spilled milk.

[The Kaiser]

Yes, I think I'll join the "post about not posting" club!

[Paulypav]

Actually, it has been stated by Activision employees in earlier posts that they wanted to avoid potential lawsuits by avoiding similarities where possible. One area in which this has been done is wonders. If one or two wonders are the same, no big deal. If they were all the same there would be some legal questions. I believe that in CTP I, they had some legal right to the Civilization name, but no longer, thus it is Call to Power II, not Civilization Call to Power II. As far as I know, there are no active legal actions, but it always makes sense to prevent them from happening if possible.

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“The American people have now spoken, but it’s going to take a little while to determine exactly what
they said.” — President Clinton

[Imran Siddiqui]

quote: but even more ridiculous, is that Firaxis and Micropose aren't collaborating on Civilization.

Uh... but they are... Firaxis is working on Civ3 with Hasbro, which owns Microprose.

And there is NO legal action over Wonders. CtP2 wanted to be 'different' from Civ, and it suceeded in that, perhaps too well.

[skorpion59]

I (as well as Harlan) spoke extensively with Activision about all this during the discussions concerning what is and isn't allowed in the Shipping Scenarios. It was made quite clear that Activision no longer has a license (thus the rights) to the Civilization name or any similarities thereof. They are on very sticky legal grounds and have done the best they can with what they can.

Having said that, if you simply have to have the Civ2 wonders, movies, units, etc, then go play Civ2. Or better yet, make your own since it isn't to likely they will sue an individual.

This is CtP2 which is an ENTIRELY different game and one, which I might add, that stands on its own.

On to more productive things....