*WONDER* why this is.

[wheathin]

Obviously you can't copyright a chariot. But the combination of all the elements could lead to a copyright problem. Chariots and Elephants and Dragoons and Barracks and Granaries and Libraries and all the Civ2 Wonders might be too much. Especially if you add the similar game mechanics, TBS design, large overlap in technologies, governments. The game designers (and their legal department) decided that some things would just have to be left out, and so they left out the Chariot.

You can't copyright the color red, or the color white, or a long wavy line. But if you combine them all, the Coca Cola company will start to get mighty nervous, and might sue you on general principles.


As to the US bit: 50 years? gimme a break. The US won WW1 for you - without fresh meat for the grinder, France would have fallen, and Britain would have sued for peace. Of course, it would mean no Hitler...

[Dauphin]

quote: Im reminded of my recent trip to Paris, where I heard an American tourist say "GEEE They really built this thing 100 years ago ??" regards to the Eiffel tower .

I've heard a similar story. An American women at Windsor castle sees a plane flying overhead. She says "I can't believe they built a castle in the middle of a flight path"!

Enough with Yank Bashing.

With regards the wonders: I can understand the bias but I don't think the wonder movies can be excused. Americas declaration of emancipation was not the first.

[Dauphin]

quote: The US won WW1 for you - without fresh meat for the grinder, France would have fallen, and Britain would have sued for peace.

Straw that broke the camel's back.

[Paulypav]

Is the U.S. overrepresented. Yes. Is it a crime. No. It is a game made in the United States, by Americans. Frankly, this diatribe has gotten pretty old by this point in time. You have ranted and raved about this time and again with little effect. To be perfectly honest, the United States has dominated the modern era whereas other eras have been represented by a number of strong civilizations. I would like to see more ancient wonders from greece and rome but they are all in Civ II.
I seem to recall one thread asking for alternate modern era wonders and there were very few options that weren't American or already in Civ II. Since Activision is trying to avoid making the game too much like Civ II some things have been cut. They can get away with a few wonders and some units and advances, but if they go too far it could get ugly.
Should the Empire State Building be a wonder, probably not although there have been some decent arguments supporting it in other threads. Is it unfair to give Americans the credit for The Agency when the British equivalent (M6 right?) is older, no, but then again British Intelligence doesn't have the reputation (Infamous) that the CIA has. British Intelligence is the 2nd or 3rd best in the world (definitely behind the Mossad of Israel and probably even with or ahead of the CIA).
The Emancipation Act itself is American, but the freedom from slavery is hardly American, but is it really British either. I would imagine that slavery was ended by many civilizations early on, perhaps even before the British Empire came around. However, has any other civilization created a document or had a significant event that resulted in the freedom of Slaves. I'm sure there is, but I am unaware of any having been taught in American schools. Personally, I think it should become the Spartacus wonder.
That still leaves the U.S. with 5. Oh well, I guess that says something.

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“The American people have now spoken, but it’s going to take a little while to determine exactly what
they said.” — President Clinton

[Paulypav]

quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch on 12-19-2000 09:55 AM Straw that broke the camel's back.

And all that military support (food, guns, planes, ships, etc.) didn't do much for the war effort either

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“The American people have now spoken, but it’s going to take a little while to determine exactly what
they said.” — President Clinton
[This message has been edited by Paulypav (edited December 19, 2000).]

[Alpha Wolf]

There are so many bogus wonders in this game, that I cant believe you are all arguing over which country they come from. Wonders are supposed to be unique, so how could the WIA, penicillin, or globesat be wonders if more than one country has them? I wish they'd replace Wonders with national improvements that could be bought by any civ. That would also end the arguement on whether Wonders have too much of an unbalancing effect.

What about the Magna Carta, Code of Hammarabi, the TVA, I'd even say the roman road system. These are more worthy of Wonder status.

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History is written by the victor.

[blinder2451]

The wonders are definitely ridiculous, but even more ridiculous, is that Firaxis and Micropose aren't collaborating on Civilization.

Until they do, it reminds me of the Civil War. Mark my words, 'Civ3' and 'CTP3' and all the rest will never be as fun as Civ2 and the ones that come before it.

I enjoyed the graphics of Civ2 and Civ1, and they tied into the gameplay. Now it's like I'm playing STARS! in the Civ world, and that's not why I enjoy Civilization.

Those who enjoyed STARS! will enjoy CTP2, but the rest of us will just have to bear with these HALF-civs that come out of half companies.

[Carrion]

quote: Originally posted by red_jon on 12-18-2000 01:28 PM CAN ANYONE SEE ANYTHING WRONG HERE? These are all great and historic nations, BUT LOOK AT HOW MANY THE US HAS. Don't get me wrong- the US has contibuted loads to the modern era, but this is ridiculous!

What do you expect from an American company? Especially with a company that has most of its market based in America. If I bought a game developed in England for an English Market I'd simply love to see all the English symbols and patriotism or what ever you call it.

I don't see why people can't stand to see American symbols in video games just because they aren't American themselves.

Could somebody enlighten me on this subject?

[red_jon]

Its not because they are American

If it were the French or Romans with that amount of wonders I'd still be complaining as it is unrealistic.

I'm sure the American people who buy this game would, on the whole, prefer it to be historically accurate.

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"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill

"Gotta love me"- Baby, Dinosaurs

[Atahualpa]

Oh man these kind of discussion lead to nothing.

does it really matter where all the wonders come from?
In the game play the british and build the empire state building. Now its yours (british) for the sake of it! This game is there to REWRITE history (the slogan says that)! Do that and enjoy!

aTa

[red_jon]

Can you honestly say you think the Zero Crime bill and Empire State Building are wonders of the world?

Even if we forget where they came from it is still STUPID.

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"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill

"Gotta love me"- Baby, Dinosaurs

[skorpion59]

Got to agree with ATA 100%.

It is a game folks. They are not writing a history book. They are adding some functionality to make the game better.

[red_jon]

But if you've just spent ages building a wonder, you want it to be something grand or satisfying.

Spending 50 turns to get a 'wonder' that just makes drug abuse and peadaphillia legal seems idiotic.

Especially when so many good suggestions have been made in these forums.

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"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill

"Gotta love me"- Baby, Dinosaurs

[Big Dave]

quote: Originally posted by Celestial_Dawn on 12-18-2000 09:24 PM Check with the Assyrian patent office.

Sorry CD, it was the Hittites.

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Big Dave

Do the Vatican police speak Pig Latin?

[Pangaea]

Wern't the Hittites counquered by the Assyrians?

several times?

heh