The Best: Civ3 or CTP2?

[Pedrunn]

Originally posted by splangy

umm ill start a new debate,

uhhhh, civ3 more goodly than ctp2.

there we go a nice intellegent debate should spring up from that one

This thread was first proposed by splangy(checked twice to see if it is right ). I know that we cant say much about civ3 because it is still in the third alpha but we all have are opinion about it and it is something cool to debate about it so here we go.

I had the same expectations that you have about it but i got disappointed. And i choose CTP2 rather than civ3 because of these major things:

1)No future - The future is one of the ages I enjoy the most (to see that the thing i miss from CTP1 is the space layer). So when i heard about the only 88 techs of civ3 I forgot all about civ3. So I rather have the 150's advances(how many are exactly with MM2?) of CTP2. Not to mention that seeing your empire going from the Nomads to the Stars are very pleasant.

2)Only 7 civs - When i left the civ3 that was just a suposition but Jeff Morris confirmed in his interview. Again rather have the 32 max of CTP2.

3)Special Units - I just love to move slavers, Corporate Branchs, and Ecoterrorist.

4)PW - A matter of choice. Although i kind of prefer a mix between the two systems. Having workers but needing to spend something on the imps either money or PWs (just dreaming about it ). But in the conflict Workers x PW i rather go with the PWs.

5)Wonder Units/ Elite Units - These concepts were added by the mods. And they are incredible, much better the civ-specific. Although any of the mods have this two together but in my computer i added both ( I kind of have my own mod but i am still thinking if i should get it in public).

6)Terrain - This one is the last because anyone knows for sure if the terrain that is appearing in the screenshots are the one they will use. Seems a Alpha but nobody knows for sure. But it is clear for anyone that the CTP2 terrain are much much much better than the civ3 actual ones. And to think that at the begginig i was hoping a 3D terrain like SMAC .

The only thing i see as a pro to civ3 is the trade system that is everything i always dreamed about it in the civ genre.

[splangy]

he he i certainly am intelectual arent i

1-that is very opinoinated, some like it some dont, i dont

2-9 civs will be in with the abillity to edit it for 16 so i beat you there (in ctp i know no one who could play with 32, the turn time is soooo much)

3- another opinion thingy, but i do like many units, just not things like "abolitionists"

4- i go the other way, plus workers are now gona be smart ( i heard) and colonys will rule the tedius pw world

5- you can turn off civ specifics, and you can get leader units to lead your civ to victory, also unuique wonders that can be built by everyone after you meet the right prequisets (isnt this ctp vs civ3? it looks like ctp-heavly modded vs civ3)

6- terrain cant really be judged as firaxis said that those screenshots are old.

7- trade system is butiful isnt it??

8- you cant talk about civ3 without mentioning culture, what a MAJOR adition

9- units being built from real materials is pretty nice as well

10- miny wonders are very nice aditions that allow you to develop a real civ over time

this is in a ctp2 forum so i can suspect most posts will be biased towards ctp2, but im ready

[rooboy]

How can you compare a game that has been released to one that is yet to be released??

Nobody can tell me exactly how good/bad Civ 3 is gonna be. Most features will come down to personal opinion, therefore what one person will love another may hate. That's why splangy is getting hard over Civ 3, while others just dismiss it as ****e.

Personally, I believe you can't accurately compare the games until Civ 3 has been released.

Another point I'll mention is how ****e CTPII was out of the box. If it weren't for the mods, there would be no discussion here.

[Der PH]

Until now I don't know much about the features civ3 will have. Does anybody know, if there will be stacked combat?

If not, I'll stay with ctp2 (MedModded of course)!

Regarding some of the other discussion points:

1) I love the future !
I'm a great fan of cyberpunk-sci-fi-scenarios and CTP (1 and 2) includes a lot of cyberpunk ideas (e.g. corporate republic, cyber ninjas (which are called street samurai in most other sources) and eco-warfare).

2) I never play CTP2 with less than 15 civs.

3) Moving slavers and abolitionists is O.K., because they attack certain cities, but commercial warfare as it is carried out by corporate branches and lawyers should be handled globally like trade.

4) I hated PW when I first started CTP. Meanwhile I got used to it, but I'd prefer real worker units (In civ2 I had always 1 or 2 engeneers behind my attacking armies which build railroads for my supply lines. This was great ).

Since I don't know much about civ3, I can only comment the things I like or don't like in CTP2.
I hope civ3 will be a milestone, which makes everybody forget all the other games of this genre, as civ1 did once, but I don't know if it will meet these expectations.

[splangy]

Originally posted by rooboy
That's why splangy is getting hard over Civ 3, while others just dismiss it as ****e.

Im getting HARD over civ3?? im not HARD over it, i tend to like it alot though and we might possibly get hitched, but i still have to make sure its alright with her parents, i can tell those people who don't like her never got to know her. shes very "nice", if you know what i meen

(i need more sleep )

thanks for the laugh!!

Der ph

ALL of what you said is oppinionated, but i agree with #4

[Cookie Monster]

""2) I never play CTP2 with less than 15 civs.""


I'm sorry if this has been asked before but I'm relatively new to this game. How does one play with >8 civs? Whenever I setup a game I only see 8 as the maximum number I can pick in CTP2. Any help would be appreciated.


Thanks

[Der PH]

Originally posted by splangy

Der ph

ALL of what you said is oppinionated

Of course it is!

The question, which game is the best, is naturally a matter of opinion, I think. Everybody has to decide it for himself and should play the game he likes the most. For me this is CTP2 (MedMod) at the moment. In the past it has been civ1, colonization, civ2, MOO2 and a lot of others.

[Der PH]

Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich
I'm sorry if this has been asked before but I'm relatively new to this game. How does one play with >8 civs?

Somewhere in the filetree (I'm writing this message on a computer, where no CTP2 is installed, so I can't check it out right now) there is a file called USERPROFILE.TXT. At the beginning of this file there is a line which says something like NumOfPlayers=???.
Change the number ??? to the number of civs you want, save the file and start a new game (original or modded, it makes no difference).
The settings screen for the new game now will show the number of civs you chose. DON'T click on this button to change it, because then you will only be offered the usual 2 to 8 civs! Just leave the number as it is and you will have plenty of civs in your game.

I heard, that other players have problems with this method. I don't, but they say, that enabling write-protection for USERPROFILE.TXT helps against these problems.

[Cookie Monster]

Thanks Der PH for your help


I will try this out later today when I get home from work!

[Pedrunn]

Originally posted by splangy
he he i certainly am intelectual arent i

1-that is very opinoinated, some like it some dont, i dont

3- another opinion thingy, but i do like many units, just not things like "abolitionists"

Oh oh, two matter of preference. At first i though the abolitionist stupid but it had to be there as an antagonist to the slaver. And it is very helpful to revolt civs in the early game. The unconventional warfare is somthing i just love, great additon and increases the realism.
Der PH you are right about it is a matter of oppinion. Who likes future, others warfares and PWs will prefer CTP2. Although we are trying to concetrate in the commom point and the presence/lack of this points.

7- trade system is butiful isnt it??

8- you cant talk about civ3 without mentioning culture, what a MAJOR adition

9- units being built from real materials is pretty nice as well

10- miny wonders are very nice aditions that allow you to develop a real civ over time

7- indeed it is.

8- I dont see culture as a great addition. I thik it is dispensable. If only there was units to change it like a cleric or the slaver (culture would low with the entrace of others civ people).

9- Another great thing from the Trade System. It sure is the most decisive pro.

10 - Adds realism but not much in gameplay. I rather have the fight to see who gets what first.

5- you can turn off civ specifics, and you can get leader units to lead your civ to victory, also unuique wonders that can be built by everyone after you meet the right prequisets (isnt this ctp vs civ3? it looks like ctp-heavly modded vs civ3)

Dont get me wrong i liked the idea of civ-spec it is just that the Elite and Woder units concepts are much better.

Rooboy is right, CTP2 unmodded looses to civ3 and even to civ2. So only modded things get even and CTP2 may be better(what i think it will be).

[Pedrunn]

double post

[Pedrunn]

Originally posted by Der PH
Until now I don't know much about the features civ3 will have. Does anybody know, if there will be stacked combat?

If not, I'll stay with ctp2 (MedModded of course)!

Regarding some of the other discussion points:

1) I love the future !
I'm a great fan of cyberpunk-sci-fi-scenarios and CTP (1 and 2) includes a lot of cyberpunk ideas (e.g. corporate republic, cyber ninjas (which are called street samurai in most other sources) and eco-warfare).

Here is something i dont know and it also is a major point. How civ3 will handle combat. If one-against-one like civ2...

Not just Eco-warfare, but commercial warfare, diplomacy warfare, slavery warfare, if only there was a culture warfare (culture could be a great point to bad firaxis didnt know how to explore the new concept).

[splangy]

CIV 3 willl have stacked combat, were you build armys:

1 army for evey 4 citys in the beginning
after you discover nationalism you build army units wicth put armies together
and a great leader unit can build one (by the way, we already know that there will be atleast 3 levels of experience in civ3, pluss great leaders )


civ3s armys will fight like this.

the best unit (best attacker or defender based on wether your attacking or defending) will step up and fight there best, then when the unit reaches red, he steps down and lets another unit up. thus as the game goes on each side will have a cold war to see who will build the best armies.
there will be airstrikes
there will bombardment, however bombarding units will need to be maned (in a army with infantry), and can only soften the defences, and cannot fight.

according to a good source (not a reveiw, maybe an interveiw) you will have so much touble taking over the world, that you can win by taking over 75% of the world. probably due to culture.

ps- the civ3 website is going up either tommorow or saturday- www.civ3.com

[Pedrunn]

Are those info about combat official? I never heard about them.

[rooboy]

The website is up now.

Can't find anything regarding combat though, so we will have to take Splangy's word, if we can do that? I'm sure he will play Civ 3 with just the one hand for both the mouse and the keyboard!!