CTP way too America-centric

[red_jon]

I understand that CTP is made by American people, but doesn't anyone think that America is over-represented?

Too many wonders are American and why is 'The Agency' (American) a wonder? The British MI6 was established hundreds of years ago so why isn't that a wonder?

Oh, and I think the description of 'Democracy' in the great library is incorrect. It makes it soundlike America invented Democracy. Ancient Greece used democracy thousands of years ago, and Iceland used democracy before America was even discovered by Europeans.

Oh and did it slip someones mind with the 'Emancipation act' that Britain had abolished slavery 50 YEARS or so beforehand?

Sorry to Americans, but the game focuses too heavily on your nation, especially in the modern era.

[Stratesford]

so god danm true

[ChaingKaiShek]

Sounds to me like someone is still a little bitter about the loss of the 'colonies' Of course the game is going to focus upon the accomplishments of the United States. Its a classic example of the "They Invented it, We perfected it.." way of thinking.

Perhaps Britan abolished Slavery years before The US, But we did it with *flair* (Its a joke... :Smirk

The point here is that if the game was created in your country instead of ours, it would reflect the acomplishments of your nation over that of the United States.

As for ctp1, I believe you are refering to the Virtual Democracy. That Government was tailored to appear like it was a creation of the 'States'. Hence the Staue of Liberty and The American Flag shown within the FMV sequence.

The actual 'Democracy' Goverment however, really had no implications that it was a US born creation.

On a parting note though, I think for CTP2 they should include a new goverment. "Representative Republic". As that is what the United States Goverment really is, Not a Democracy.. (Although we are quickly becomming a Corporate Republic.. ).

Just My thoughts, I could be wrong..

[red_jon]

In a game that is supposed to represent civilization throughout the ages, it should not be focused so heavily on the nation that made it.

I was not implying that there should be more British wonders and elements (I think Britain was overrepresented in Civ2 in terms of wonders) I think there should be more worldwide achievenments.

THE FACT THAT EVERY MODERN WONDER IS AMERICAN IS SURELY A HUGE INNACCURACY.

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...And if the British Commonwealth and its people live for a thousand years, man will still say "this was their finest hour".

[red_jon]

quote: Originally posted by ChaingKaiShek on 10-21-2000 08:18 AM The actual 'Democracy' Goverment however, really had no implications that it was a US born creation.

Have you even looked at the great library under 'democracy'?

[Va-Toran]

The icon for the democracy is the statue of Liberty, same as Virtual Democracy.

The futuristic wonders are far too America-centric.

I have no problem with the modern wonders. Of the modern wonders, 1 was invented by a Brit (Internet) and 1 is a joint American and British effort (Genome Project). It is fairly diffficult to name a set of Modern wonders that are not America-centric or British-centric. As they are the leading powers of the time. The only 'foreign' wanders worthery of mention are - Olympic Games, Suez Canal (a french-British joint venture) and possibly the Eiffel Tower.

BTW, I am British.

[Dida]

I felt the same way. Too many "American Wonders" in most Civs game. Hard to believe that someone in the Civ3 forums is trying to make West Point a wonder also.

[lev]

I've been a li'l dissatisfied with the Ctp wonders myself, in no small part because not one of the "seven ancient wonders of the world" are included - prob'ly because of copyright, since Civ1 & 2 had 'em first.

And I also agree it's a bit US-centric.

[WesW]

For those of you who want to see different Wonders in the game- suggest some!
Those of us who put together the new wonders for the Med mod made a concerted effort to include a worldwide representation of them, and found many up through the 19th century. In the 20th, however, it's been the US who has produced most of the great projects, just like the leading nations of the past did during their time on top (Egyptian, Greek, Roman, French, and English).

[St Swithin]

But our favourite team is ManU. We're not all bad, are we?

[ChaingKaiShek]

..Hmm.. Now I'm going to have in reinstall the game to check, but I still do not believe that Democracy was represented as an "American" invention.

Virtual Democracy was.. :P

I will check it out, if I am wrong I will correct my former statement.

A few points though. If anyone posting on this topic could Post the wonders you thought were a little 'too american' :P I would like to hear them. I cannot remember all of the wonders but from what I can recall, the Emancipation Act, Hollywood And the Agency were all protraied as being American in orgin.

I don't mean to cause arguments for no reason and I do agree with you all, it would be nice for the game to be more balanced.

Chaing

[Big Dave]

quote: Originally posted by Va-Toran on 10-21-2000 11:13 AM I have no problem with the modern wonders. Of the modern wonders, 1 was invented by a Brit (Internet) and 1 is a joint American and British effort (Genome Project).

Now I would have sworn that the Internet was invented by Al Gore....

On a more serious note, what was a Brit doing working on a US Defence Agency project(DARPAnet)?



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Big Dave

My karma ran over my dogma.

[red_jon]

In the great library section, only America is mentioned under 'democracy'. I just feel it would be nice for it to have mentioned where it actually originated, etc.

I think that the INTERNET is American and the WEB is a British innovation. (I could be wrong).

I agree that the US has done a lot of the modern wonders today but a couple of others could be Karl Marx's teachings (more Ind. Rev. I know but there isn't an 'industrial rev. era' in the unmodified CTP) and the channel tunnel (due to the fact that it is a great technological feat).

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...And if the British Commonwealth and its people live for a thousand years, man will still say "this was their finest hour"- Winston Churchill.

[Bartemans]

Hello,

Red_Jon, I like you!

As you can see, I am Dutch and the Dutch have their prides. One of these prides (the VOC, or East Indies Company, although some reject it, since force was sometimes used excessively)
This was a wonder (and a good one!).

However, there are more Dutch prides:
CIVIL ENGINEERING PROJECTS
(I admit, I am a student in Civil Engineering)
The Delta-project is one of the modern wonders of the world, espescially the "Stormvloedkering" (a dam that can be closed during storms, but which is open in normal situation.)

There can be some good reasons to allow this wonder, however, like in CIV2, only the Hoover Dam (even when civ 2 was released, there are bigger dams in the world)
the most wonders were American.

Some good wonders would be:
The Channel tunnel
The Delta Project
(Re)claiming of Flevoland (a Dutch province, gained from the sea)

The Apollo Project
International Space Station (to build WITH another CIV
or, Mir if you do not want to co-operate)
the Panama Canal (or Suez Canal)
Olympic games

I am thinking on more wonders.

Critics please!

Bye,

Bartemans
http://home.hccnet.nl/stolte.1

[red_jon]

See Activision, we can come up with lots of non-US wonders.

(granted they're mostly from Europe)

How about some modern Japanese wonders (they seem to have made a lot of technological advances)?

Ancients wonders should be centered towards Greece, Rome and Egypt, etc., Rennaisance from Europe and China and modern from the US, Europe, Japan and Russia.

OH, and ChaingKaiShek, I wouldn't call a very bloody civil war 'flair'.

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...And if the British Commonwealth and its people live for a thousand years, man will still say "this was their finest hour"- Winston Churchill.