The Medieval Pack II Beta: The Gathering (Part 2)

[Radical_Manuvr]

It appears the disappearing granaries are supposed to happen after all. The problem is with the GL. In the GL Stonehenge says it boosts science in the host city but the printout/readme file says it gives granaries.

I think there is a mistake on the Elite Hoplites. The support cost is 1 but the chart shows they should cost 5.

Wes, thanks for adding the * to the elites.

I've run into the lockup problem on my last two games. I guess it's me cause nobody else has said anything. Can barbarians get elite units if they investigate huts? Just a guess but if they can't it's a problem. I've seen them get huts occasionally.

[lev]

Nice movie!

I just watched the medpack2.avi, and I'm impressed!

Partially, I must admit, 'cuz I got to see my name in the graphics credits. Okay, so I'm vain...

Looking forward to playing the mod. I've basically been away from CtP2 for many months, waiting for Med2 to be finished. Thanks for all the effort!

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Harlan
Wes,

It looks like I won't be able to play the game any time soon though, as I'll be travelling for a while again. But when I get back I'm sure the mod will be great by then. I'd still like to see what happens if one gives the AI a production advantage (allowing them to complete something in only, say 80% of the time). I still think that's a great way to improve the game, and allowing the AI civs to have more units, buildings and such would only make the game better, since no one is complaining that its too hard. The top difficulty level should be damn hard, nearly impossible, whereas people like me always are forced to play the top level to get any challenge.

i completley agree with Harlan, and the levels should be organised in that way that the easiest level is perhaps the same as now, for the total novices, and that it gets harder in incremental steps so you can actually feel different difficulty level. (as opposed to now)

Of course finishin with impossible (as the title says), meaning that a win on impossible level should be considered an achievement for anyone.

[Pintello]

Hi Janilxx and Rhuarc,

It occures to me that if the Settlers are such a nuciance, simply go into the units.txt file and add the line "can be sued" or whatever the correct syntax is for that. Check the Spy unit to be sure. Once you do this, if you have a spy, lawyer, agent, or any other unit with the ability to sue in the Med Mod 2, you can then simply sue the settler and thus destroy him without actually having to go to war with the defending civilization.

This may even be something WesW may want to included in the general MedMod 2 setup.

Regards,

Timothy Pintello

[Rhuarc]

I agree with you janillxx. I gets really annoying haveing to constantly take units all over your empire just to kick out the stupid settlers. Why shouldn't they be withdrawn along with allt he rest of the units when you request another civ withdraw? Is there anything that can be done about this? Or are we the only two who see this as being a flaw?

[janilxx]

Re: CanBeExpelled

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann

Settlers can be expelled use the expell order. You can take look into the unit.txt and you will find that the settler unit has this flag:

Yeah and lets wait few turns. Oh hi again settler. Would you like to taste my shoe again.

.
..
...
Time passes
....

Oh hi, I was waiting you already. Would you little settler like some coffee when you wait me to kick you?

.....
......

Oh you were fast this time. --Kick--

.................
..................
...................
You want me to kick you 126th time? Ok.

.......................
........................
Hi again. Yes we can kick in the 20th century too.



I really enjoy kicking those bastards or do I?

[Martin Gühmann]

CanBeExpelled

Originally posted by janilxx

I am quite sure that asking AI to withdraw does not affect settlers!!! Those little devils comes always back to my territories. And then I have to declare war and only because of settlers. Stupid.

Settlers can be expelled use the expell order. You can take look into the unit.txt and you will find that the settler unit has this flag:

CanBeExpelled

I suggest to give that flag also to some small land units so can get rid of them without declaring war or asking the AI to withdraw.

-Martin

[janilxx]

Am I talking alone here?

I am quite sure that asking AI to withdraw does not affect settlers!!! Those little devils comes always back to my territories. And then I have to declare war and only because of settlers. Stupid.

If nobles can do something else than establish embassies and have parties this is futile comment. I had a war agains AI but he tried once establish embassy with noble. He did not success

Attack city and retreat. You still have possibility to bombard city in same turn. stupid.

Could the sleep/sentinel command be changed so that unit would wake up after for example 10 turns? I hate when I but some "futile" units(that time futile, maybe not later) sleep and after 100 turns I suddenly see those units againd and I recognize that I have forgotten those units and they are really bad and futile units now.

[janilxx]

Originally posted by Harlan
I'd still like to see what happens if one gives the AI a production advantage (allowing them to complete something in only, say 80% of the time).

Yes maybe this should be tested. I think that the game is too "easy" now

[Harlan]

Wes,
I'm glad to see that you've moved some terraforming items further into the future, and added the Bowman. How long does the Bowman remain a viable unit- I'm hoping until gun based units totally take over (1500 or so - there were many more crossbowmen than muskets in the armies of Columbus, Cortez and the like).

It looks like I won't be able to play the game any time soon though, as I'll be travelling for a while again. But when I get back I'm sure the mod will be great by then. I'd still like to see what happens if one gives the AI a production advantage (allowing them to complete something in only, say 80% of the time). I still think that's a great way to improve the game, and allowing the AI civs to have more units, buildings and such would only make the game better, since no one is complaining that its too hard. The top difficulty level should be damn hard, nearly impossible, whereas people like me always are forced to play the top level to get any challenge.

[janilxx]

IT would be very nice to have
MedPack II version 1
and
MedPack II version 2 beta
items in modswapper when first public is out. I would then have change to play with first public and test second beta at the same time

[janilxx]

Originally posted by Radical_Manuvr
My biggest complaint is the settlers trying to go through my territory and once even settlling in my territory which squeezed my city influence once it grew. I had a treaty and no trespass agreement so I don't know how they settled there. I know the game (at least the regular game or maybe I'm thinking of Alien Crossfire) would not let me settle in another civ's territory under those circumstances (though I didn't try to test it). There's no way to get rid of them other than enslave or kill, so every turn or every other turn I was having to boot 'em back. That got very old.

Try to give your map to them. It worked on me once. I suppose AI saw from my map that there is no free territories behind my lands and he guided his settler to go other direction. Btw I would like that settlers cannot settle inside nation's borders if they have some kind of treaty(what is good treaties???)

I do not suggest 2 settlers in the beginning of the game. That would help human players too much. I thinkt that 1 settler is ok.

[WesW]

I left a message for the tech guy at Gamestats to get back with me Friday. I will be gone tomorrow.

Glad to hear that science seems to flow smoothly into the second half of the game. Once I get this last update posted, I will be finishing up loose ends before going public. I think we have done about all we can with the AI without some heavy experimentation that will have to go on during the second release beta. The units, advances, and all the new stuff is finalized as far as I am concerned. All the slic triggers seem to be working, too, and I think people are going to appreciate them more and more as they gain experience with the mod.
It is just a shame that there is not a good way to multiplay this game (or is there?). The Elite units and the conquest changes would add so much realism and suspense to a game against humans. Did anyone ever come up with a way of disabling the counter-proposal diplomacy element in order to re-implement the multi-play features?

I added the * to the elite units, and it shows up when you are choosing advances and in the units list. Thanks for spelling it out for me, Batty, since it is hard to keep everything straight even when you work with the files every day.

I also added notices of when buildings go obsolete, so you can better decide if it is worth building them.
The GL also contains notices in the Karnak and Stonehenge wonders that you will need to build Granaries and Shrines when these wonders lose their effects.

I feel quite happy with the new terraforming and farming settings, now that I have had a day to think about them.
The Bowman sounds better too, once I sat down to write out the gameplay file explaining its use. Actually, why not paste it here for you to read:
[UNIT_BOWMAN_GAMEPLAY]
The Bowman is the successor to the ATABASE_UNITS,UNIT_ARCHER>Archer. Armed with an iron sword to complement his composite bow, the Bowman can attack from a distance or hold his own in direct conflict with stronger enemy units if he is supported by fortifications like City Walls. This makes the Bowman good for rounding out your attack forces and ideal for city garrisons.

I also made the Composite Bow a preq for Iron Working, replacing the redundant Bronze working (which was also a preq for Iron Working's other preq, Infantry Tactics).
I also edited the Archer's pic to give him a sheathed sword on his left hip. This may be hard to pick out, but that is what it is.

[preacherman]

Wes,

Arqurbusiers and bombard units would be ok but at this time there is no need for them. The Ai's very seldom will attack a city. Only when I am playing on Very Hard. I would put your effert some where elles. In fact after barbs are out of the game I don't see any need for milita.

I don't think you need to give more then one settler. The more citys you get at the begining the less chanch the Ai has to win.

I haven't noticed any bogging down in the science in the Post-renaossamce age.

I know that starting with London Exchange it takes to long to build a wonder. I can build brokerages in all my citys faster and cheaper then building the exchange. We sure don't need the Ai's to waste all that time and production on it.

Thanks for the roads on the glaciers.

[Radical_Manuvr]

Well I made it through a game without crashing. Maybe the last game got corrupted somehow????????

I would like a better chance for a second settler at the start. It's very hard with just one (as the difficulty level indicates).

My opinion is keep the Bombard and Arque. as Elites but they need to be able to move.

The advances seemed to come at about the right time historically but I got a world peace victory in 1911 so I don't know how the rest would have been.

My biggest complaint is the settlers trying to go through my territory and once even settlling in my territory which squeezed my city influence once it grew. I had a treaty and no trespass agreement so I don't know how they settled there. I know the game (at least the regular game or maybe I'm thinking of Alien Crossfire) would not let me settle in another civ's territory under those circumstances (though I didn't try to test it). There's no way to get rid of them other than enslave or kill, so every turn or every other turn I was having to boot 'em back. That got very old.

I noticed a few times that defender's hit points get taken to zero but they don't die, in some cases winning a close battle but coming away with zero hit points. The only one I wrote down was a hoplite as a defender.

One civ declared war on me very early in the game for no reason at all. It was only a few turns after I met them and we had no diplomatic contact between meeting and the declaration of war. They paid the price but they could have done much better. They had a number of settlers standing around when I got to their territory (unlike my immediate neighbor). I rushed some slavers over there and had a field day, plus barbarians took some out.

Only one other civ declared war on me and that was after I used an abolitionist on them. Maybe I'll try provoking the other civs next time to see how they act at war.

On the disappearing granaries. I got it narrowed down a little. Sorry, I traded for 2 advances and had just got one when I noticed they disappeared. It isn't geometry that does it since I didn't have that yet. I think it was iron working or paper, but it could possibly be infantry tactics or currency. I'll try to narrow again in the next game. When I got the advance for food silos the granaries came back.

More wierdness... another civ (whom I had a embassy with) had a city revolt. A noble appeared out of nowhere just to establish an embassy with the new civ then disappeared. Later, I had signed a cease fire with a civ I previously had an embassy with and another noble appeared and established a new embassy within a few turns of the cease fire.

Man, the new city graphics are really cool. I like the Mayan, Mexican ones especially. I don't know how you did it but it even carries the theme into the later ages.

On to the next game. I should do better now that I know the mills disappear when you get oil refining.