The Medieval Pack II Beta: The Gathering

[Pintello]

Hi Wes,

I played a little bit more yesterday. I started a new game with the new text files since I was only about 200 turns into the old one anyway. This time around the Militia slic seems to be working fine. I don't know if that if a coincidence of or you updated the trigger, but I thought I would mention it anyway.

I noticed that my last post got cut off so I will ask about ship bombarding again. Which naval units can bombard land. I have not seen that anywhere yet.

Timothy Pintello

[Huysmans_666]

Hi Y'all,

Yeah oke, my fault, I thought the WHOLE GL was good but only the advances part.
Well sorry oke ! jeez !!!!

Really hope to get some more testign done, plus I'llbe expecting a trigger from locutus soon which will get me back on track with my SLIC script for pirates.

I mean...you can also do it with adaptation of some files but I like using SLIC for those kinds of things !
Don't ask me why !

Well gotta go, goin' home ..... work's done !!!! thank god for small favors !

[Huysmans_666]

Hi Y'all,

Duplicate post ...having some probs
[This message has been edited by Huysmans_666 (edited March 29, 2001).]

[walkerjonny]

Hi folks,

huysmans:

I've build tile improvements (especially gold improvements), i've build traderoutes but i haven't enough cash to get the sience work properly. Do you have any idea for me?

Wes:
There are some suggestions to get a better cash flow and sience plus some other improvements, too:

city improvements:
What do you think about a city improvement "post office" in the late Renaissance Age? This improved the cash flow and trading.
And a "telegraph office" in the Modern Age improved cash flow by increasing stock exchange and sience because the peoples were able to send important informations in a short time.
And now in the Information Age improves a "Mega Store" (the really big stores we have now) cash flow significantly.

advances:
"Printing Press":
I assume to change the "Publishing House" to "State Library" (+30% Sience). The state librarys came up at around the same time than the printing press. This should enable another advance ->
"Public News" or "News Paper":
Here could the "Publishing House" be placed. The publishing house increases both the sience research and the happiness of the citizens (+15% Sience and +2 Happiness)

tile improvements:
I'm wondering why building roads, railways, maglevs and undersea tunnels doesn't affect food, gold and production. In our normal life it does it very strongly. Because of this i assume following ->
Road: +5 for gold, food and production
Railway: +10 for gold, food and production
Maglev and Undersea Tunnel: +15 for gold, food and production

Maybe the following things are correct but i just want to verify they are:
I've seen that the stealth fighter has now a movement of 10 and the stealth bomber of 15. In the standard game this was just the other way round. I think it was ok by this way because fighters are faster than bombers, aren't they?
Why the space plane is slower now than a fighter (movement 12)? They're normally much faster. The speed of the standard game was ok (movement of 18).
While using plasma destoyes and dreadnoughts i noticed that i was able to exceed the shown maximum range of those ships. This might be really a bug.

I recogniced further, that the computer generated players have the same cash flow problem than i. Maybe this causes some of the "stupid AI" issues.

That's it for now.
But again: This mod is very nice at this time! :->
Im really looking forard when it is finished. Great work, guys! :-) :-)

[preacherman]

Hi
I have been playing the latest up grade, on very hard normal map barbs on max. Barbs are no problem just keep all armys at at less three and they can't hurt you. Don't know who said that Ai's are not agressive enought, but they are killing my. thy arn't doing anything on land they do have large stacks but don't attack. They are sending out many spys, slavers, abolitionist, and settlers. But on the water they are sending stacks of 8 at me. I am having hard time getting enough PW to suport my army and build anything(at war on three fronts)even with mines everywhere. I did not have SOL long enough to build one, got two Ironclads built, then game disbanded one becouse of lack of support. They became obsolete at Oil Refining.That left me with no more ships I could build except Galleon.My adversaries had stacks of SOLs and ironclads to make my life miserable. Why can't culverin bombard ships? I have been left totaly defenseless against my foe.

Last game I played ended when I had just got the adv Autombile. I was at less 2 ages above all Ai. I was playing on hard level. In this game it is 1926 and I am at top of science. and am only at Chemistry.

Wonders go ok till yu get to London Exchange, it takes over 100 turns to compeat. That seem way to long.

I find that I must be working specialest to keep citys happy and produce enough gold and PW. Mayors don't do anything I can see to help. You can't let your citys get two big or you can't keep them happy. If you can't have big citys you must have many citys, but the Ai's don't see it that way. So you spend much time at war. this will lst till you get to mondern age then you are so powerfull that the Ai will do anything you say.

Great game--getting better with each mod

[WesW]

I forgot about the Great Library (GL) being a special text file. Here is what you need to do to update all the files. If you continue a previous game, you will also have to reload slic.

1)Extract update.
2)Open modswapper, select Original game and press "Load and Save". Close modswapper.
3)Open modswapper, select Med pack II and press "Load and Save". Close modswapper.
4)Start Ctp2 in the normal fashion.

Steps 1 and 2 can be swapped if you prefer. The critical thing is to not do step 3 without doing step 2. This is why I suggest closing modswapper between steps 2 and 3. The game version which is highlighted when you open modswapper is the version currently in use.

The Public release is still a couple of weeks away at the earliest.

I will keep the Pirates in mind, Janil. I will see what I can do when I see the finished code for it.

Dark Yellow ships starting with SotL can bombard land. Red ships can too. I have just now updated the Med charts so that everything is spelled out.

Remember that Banks, Harbors and City Clocks only increase gold, not commerce, so they will not help your science. There upkeep *is* taken out of commerce, however, so if you are not short on gold you may be better off not building them.

Roads do not function the same way in Ctp as in civ2. If you give them a commerce bonus, it will be an incentive to build them "everywhere", ala civ2, which I for one do not want to see.

If science continues to be a problem, then I will decrease the cost of the technologies, or increase the max gold percentage for governments.

Fighters are faster than Bombers, but they have much smaller fuel tanks.

Sorry, P-man, that was a bug with the Ironclad. I have made them obsolete with Mass Production. You are right about the Culverin. I have given it the ability to bombard water. All gunpowder artillery units can bombard water now. I also found while checking that the enabling advances for the Plasma Cannon and Hovertank were switched, and corrected that.

When Dale and Wouter finish their current triggers, I will post another update.

[Timeline]

Hello Everyone! I’ve done some more testing, this time of the GL Ally Cat wrote.

All in all, some very good work Ally Cat. It looks like a massive job, very nice of you to do this for Wes and for all of us . I searched through the advance database and found some errors, they are posted below. I used the Advance Chart in the Med Mod readme folder as my point of reference.

GL says Agro Industry gives Industrial Farms, I believe it means Hydroponic Farms.

GL says Arcology advance gives nothing, it gives Arcologies and the Leviathan.

Assault Tactics prerequisite is Automatic Rifles, not Automated Machines.

Typing error under Chemistry advance.

Citizenship needs Jurisprudence as a prerequisite.

Composite Bow is not suppose to have any prerequisite.

Conservation needs Immunization as a prerequisite.

Crop Rotation needs Feudalism as a prerequisite.

Decimal System does not need Infantry Tactics as a prerequisite.

Drama gives Amazons

Flight gives the Fighter and Airbase. It does not give the Aircraft Carrier.

Fluid Breathing gives Hover Marine. It does not give the Scout Sub.

Genetic Tailoring does not give the Kraken.

Geometry gives the Hagia Sophia.

Global Comm does not give the Anti-Ballistic Missile.

Global Defenses gives te Anti-Ballistic Missile.

Global Economy does not give the Hollywood Wonder.

Gunpowder gives the Bombard and Arquebusier. It does not give the Infantryman.

Horse Riding gives the Chariot. It does not give the Mounted Archer and Trading Post.

Industrial Revolution does not give the Machine Gunner.

Internal Combustion gives the PT Boat. It does not give the Troopship.

Iron Working gives the Heavy Swordsmen. It does not give the Samurai.

Jet Propulsion gives the Spy Plane. It doesn’t give the Bomber.

Spelling of the Chichen Itza wrong under the Jurisprudence advance.

Mass Media gives Fundamentalism, and it doesn’t give the Outlet Mall.

Mass Production only gives the Destroyer.

The Mechanical Power has a Geometry prerequisite, not Feudalism.

Modern Metallurgy gives the Battleship and not the Ironclad.

Nano Assembly does not give the Sea Engineer.

Nano Machines: Okay, confusing here. The Med Mod Chart says this advance gives the Moray Striker and Adv. Undersea Mines, and says it doesn’t give something called an “Aqua-Filter� that is referred to in the GL. Guess you should take a look Ally Cat.

Nano Warfare: Nano Defense is called Micro Defense in the GL (Error?).

Nationalism gives Partisan and Republic. It does not give the Spy.

Oceanography is supposed to give something called Ocean Mapping (according to Med Mod Adv. Chart).

Oil Refining needs Chemistry as a prerequisite.

Plough advance is not suppose to have any prerequisite.

Steel does not give Infrastructure.

Ultra Pressure Machines is suppose to have HP Construction and Adv. Composites as a prerequisite.

*Gasping for Air*

Wheeewwwwww!! That’s all of em!!

Now, as I am sitting here in my chair at my desk, I am just realizing that I was using an old printout (march 8) of the Advance Chart as my reference. So it is possible that there may be some errors in here that have already been fixed, I am very sorry. I already caught a few that were corrected in the new Advance chart.

Hey Locutus! Glad to hear you are feeling better. No, I didn’t know anything, just wanted you to know that we all were thinking of you .

Wes: I see your point now after reading the History Text for the PT boat in CTP2. They had limited range, but operated at high speeds. So now that we have simulated the short range, how about we simulate the high speed? Why not raise the PT’s movement to 8?

Oh btw, WesW, I am *so* sorry about the Self Prop Gun thing. It was a case of me being confused when I was reading the advance chart. In short, I thought they went obsolete at Rocketry. Sorry for the mistake.

Okay, I did have another question for you though Wes: Why does the War Walker come in the Information age, and at the same time as the Battle Tank? I see according to the chart the War Walker comes in the 1990s - 2000s. I don’t think any nation on earth is anywhere near implementing such a thing as a War Walker today . . . unless it is where it is for game balance I think you should move this unit into the Genetic age. I kinda think it was weird that nano assembly and under water construction is all available in the 90s - 00s too. But maybe you didnt have any other place to put it . . .

Are you planning on getting a new sprite for the Rifleman? I don’t know if you read my post in response to your thoughts on the Stormtrooper, but I had said I think you should get a new sprite, if you can, for this type of unit (Modern Assault Unit). I said I would change the sprite before I would change the name. Well, if you get a new sprite for the Rifleman, you can use the old one for the Stormtrooper, just a thought.


I will end with a positive thought: This mod is gonna kick butt!!


Timeline



[This message has been edited by Timeline (edited March 29, 2001).]

[Rhuarc]

Wes,
I jsut downloaded the newest of all the files for your Mod. After I had installed the game I installed the patch, then the modswapper, then I unzipped all the mod files in the CTP2 folder. I opened the modswapper and clicked MedMod2. After I started a new game it seemed to work until after I had moved my second settler (where it would normally automatically end your turn. Then I got a SLIC error.
It said :

C:\Program Fles\Activision\Call To Power 2 ctp2_data\default\gamedata\MM2_scenario2.slc:135:A rray index 0 out of bounds.

Is this an actual bug, or is it something that I don't have installed right? Everything is installed exactly the same way as before i downloaded the new updates, and before it worked beautifully. Thanks a lot for your help!



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DO, OR DO NOT, THERE IS NO TRY - Yoda

[alley_cat]

Thanks Timeline. This really helps that you report bugs (and say such nice things ). I was waiting that someone will report bugs on the GL.
I'll look over what you reported and I guess that the next version of the GL, who is supposed to include units (not all the sections of the units though) and improvements will include all these fixes.
Keep bringing bug reports! You are the one who will benefit from them.

Note: The technologies Conservation, Agriculture (Plough) and Ultrapressure Machinery all have the same problem, which I couldnt solve even after looking many times in the code - The Prerequirements section is always left blank and I can't figure out why, so I told Wes to take care of it. Until than, this bug will stay

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Let people hear what they want to hear
[This message has been edited by alley_cat (edited March 30, 2001).]

[Starfighter08]

I'd like to add my two cents too.

Its the first time I managed to reach future tech with the mod and something hit my eye immediately. All the future gov's seem to be at about the same level of the tech tree. I think it would be good to have 2 earlier future gov's (say corporate republic and technocracy) and two later ones (virtual dem. and ecotopia) like in CTP1. that would also solve part of the problem with the costs of researching techs because future govs should research faster (BTW it kinda feels funny to switch from communism to virtual democracy).

Which leads me to the second point. The high wages together with the apparently weak economies of the democracies not only makes it difficult to sustain them (I'm running a deficit that will bankrupt me in about 25 turns) but also results in longer research times for advances than in not so research adapted govs.

[GreatDane]

In a game I am running on a normal map with 8 civs, very hard level. I have just discovered sanitation in the year 2075. I have not been in that many wars and I am in 2nd place in the science.

I think the tech three should run a little faster in the modern ages. Early in the game it seemed just fine. There also seem to be a lot of advances late in the game that just enable research on new advances. This ofcourse slows the pace of the research.

Also when I don't discover sanitation until so late in the game it forces my cities and the AI's to stay at size 16 which then leads to lower production and income.

I don't have a clue on how to solve this problem but I am sure you guys will figure something out.
[This message has been edited by GreatDane (edited March 30, 2001).]

[alley_cat]

Timeline, thank you VERY much for all the bug reports . I took care of most of them, but had some problems with others.
Here are some notes for all of you regarding to the bug reports:

quote: Decimal System does not need Infantry Tactics as a prerequisite.

It DOES need Infantry Tactics (at least at my Advance Chart).

quote: Drama gives Amazons

Yeah, I know. But I found nothing in the text files I work with that talk about Amazons. I think that Wes should work on this one.

quote: Spelling of the Chichen Itza wrong under the Jurisprudence advance.

I couldn't fix that one because I don't have the needed font installed on my computer in order to write the special "a" and "e". Somebody else should do this. Maybe Wes.

quote: Nano Warfare: Nano Defense is called Micro Defense in the GL (Error?).

I fixed that one too, considering the fact that the Advance Chart is also written that way, but I'm not so sure that this is the right thing cause the Med Charts do call it Micro Defense.

quote: Oceanography is supposed to give something called Ocean Mapping (according to Med Mod Adv. Chart).

This part havent been prepared and should be deleted from the Advance Chart as far as I know.

quote: The Mechanical Power has a Geometry prerequisite, not Feudalism.

It DOES require Feudalism.
And about the Plough, Ultra Pressure Machines and Conservation, I already told what the problem was in the last post.

Please supply me with more bug reports!
Alley Cat.

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Let people hear what they want to hear
[This message has been edited by alley_cat (edited March 30, 2001).]

[joseph1944]

I found this last night. When you get the advanced to build Horse Archer you build Cavalry instead. Somehow the Cavalry Sprite was change for the Horse Archer. I used him against a Heavy Swordsman and the Cavalry/Horse Archer lost. I play around 300 plus turn w/the lasted text changes and only one crash to desk top. The crash was one of those computer code crashes and not a slic or internal mod crash. The barbarian in my game took two cities from the Assyrian and when I attack them (barbarian), one city had six or seven mix defender and the other city had about five defender, plus they were sending stack of two and three units to challenged me. Also the Germans started a war with me. I’m playing at the middle level.

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[Timeline]

quote: Originally posted by alley_cat on 03-30-2001 07:40 AM Timeline, thank you VERY much for all the bug reports .

Happy to be able to help

quote: Decimal System does not need Infantry Tactics as a prerequisite It DOES need Infantry Tactics (at least at my Advance Chart) The Mechanical Power has a Geometry prerequisite, not Feudalism. It DOES require Feudalism.

Yep, sorry about this. This was a case where I was using an old advance chart printout. I see the new one has been changed somewhat, sorry about confusion.


Timeline


[This message has been edited by Timeline (edited March 30, 2001).]

[WesW]

If you have the latest advances chart, you can see that the Info age extends until 2040, and that it shares the third-to-last column with the Genetic age. This means that War Walkers can come as late as 2040 in the timeline. This is still too early, and I would rather have a sprite like the Paladin being developed by the US Army, but I have to go with the sprites I have.
I may push the Fascist sprite back to the Mech. Inf. unit, and use one of the Ctp1 infantry sprites for the Stormtrooper. The Marine or Paratrooper would be the choices.

Rhuarc, if you re-installed Ctp2, you will have to set debugSLIC back to no.

The future gov's appearance is based upon the length of time since the previous gov for that type. Check out the color-coding to see what I mean.
The mod is designed for AI players, who use one gov type throughout the game (blue, yellow, purple, etc).
I have gotten into the future ages in any game yet, but the stats in the Govern page don't suggest a gold shortage for Democracy-type govs. You may not be able to use the max science rate of 90% for V-Dem, and you can't have a large army under Dem unless you have a huge GDP.

I don't plan on adding the Amazons unless I can get regular-sized sprites for them. Since BlueO seems to have permanently disappeared, I will take them out of the charts.