Introducing the Medieval Pack II v1.0 Alpha

[Harlan]

Preacherman's comments echo my own a while back, the ones Wes thought were very bizarre (in that case, the AIs may have been extremely lucky- starting with two settlers and finding more from huts and so forth).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The AI shouldn't start with upfront cheats, or at least as few as possible. I don't like this in the regular game, and I wouldn't want it in a mod. There's a better way to have them cheat, if they must: long term cheating. Let them start with pretty much the same stuff, but be able to produce things faster, research things faster. Its sooo much better to have the game start off easy (relatively)and get harder than the reverse, which is what always happens in CTP2, and is one of its worst problems in my opinion.

Getting rid of the upfront cheats and toughening the long term cheats alone will make this modpack a great improvement over the regular. The tougher levels should just have greater long term cheating, not any more up front cheating.

And also, why not make Impossible live up to its name? It seems the tough levels aren't tough enough.

Of course Wes just agreed to this in the previous post, but I felt like emphasising this anyways .

[preacherman]

I can tell yoou this, the way the game is set now it is taken all my skill to stay alive. I am into the late 1800's I am having to play with the food, wage, and workday bars to keep my cive alive. with all my wars atlest 2 most of the game. (I only started one of them). AI's are much more aggresave now. Trying to keep a big army leads to not enought production. If you adjust to get prod. up then you drop science. I have been forced to research the military advancements to keep up with the AI's. so I ran out of money. could we get trading posts back? I have only seen 1 AI boat that was a long boat.
I like the mod it is just a little over powering when you first start and you have people showing up all over and you only have two citys. I must have had 20 units running around my civ till the wars started then they left.

[Alpha Wolf]

quote: Originally posted by WesW on 01-01-2001 10:46 PM The first time I looked at the DiffDB I was surprised at how much advantage the AI was given. Yet all everyone talked about was how they could easily wipe the floor with the AI on Impossible level. It seems that my changes to AI settings have made a big improvenment, because I have not touched the DiffDB settings at all. I will go back and reduce the human handicap, and see if that addresses the growth and science problems you are all reporting compared to the AI. Btw, check out the advances thread. I have posted the techs I plan to add to the game, and will shortly upload the advances chart for you to look at.

Apparently, IMPOSSIBLE to activision means playing catchup from way way behind. i agree completely with harlan and have removed some of the AI's big lead as the Ai gets tougher militarily. Isnt it funny that the AI starts with a big lead, but then slows down so its not so far ahead. I may be behind in tech, but the Ais cant match me militarily and I just build a few armies and kick butt.

------------------
History is written by the victor.

[Coflek]

I haven't been playing the last couple of days but I am happy to see that the AI is so much better. I agree that AI should cheat in the long term more, and it would be good to have at least one level where Ai would be better long - term, so lets say the player would need to learn and use all the tricks and struglle all the way trough to stay alive, let alone win... (the win should be a rare occassion, at least for a while) this should be impossible level, as it says... and will make the game much more enjoyable. For the people who cant cope there you have the levels below... it seems that the mod is going this way so it is great... I'll start it again these days.
[This message has been edited by Coflek (edited January 03, 2001).]

[PinkFriend]

To WesW

It looks like files of 'Advances.txt' and 'Units.txt' have different versions. Such 'Units.txt' has in 'Unit_Archer' section string of "ObsoleteAdvance ADVANCE_ENGINEERING" but Advances.txt don't contain
such advance. There are several links to unexisting advances such as RADIO, MICROCOMPUTERS, STIRRUP etc. Maybe these files are from CTP1 mod?

Please, send me (akrav@ibrae.ac.ru) correct file (files) and of course correct this bug in your MOD's site.

P. S. Your e-mail does not work properly and return mail sended to you.

[Martock]

Wes, i downloaded the Med Mod II yesterday and installed it last night. everything seemed to go ok until i clicked the launch button. then problems arose. i'm not sure if this is the same problem that was already listed in another topic but it totally smooshed my ctp2 install. basically i got about 30-40 (i lost count after that) errors - DB error can't find engineering, radio, etc (as with PinkFriend) - i didn't do anything to the files, just used winzip to put them into the scenarios folder. it seemed to go fine and i can't think whatelse i might have missed. i downloaded 4 files off your site, 1 pictures, 2 sprites and 1 text file. am i missing something??

please advise me on what u think may be going screwy here...thanks!

[Paul]

Read Wes' post on Dec 31, 18:09. You should choose the second Med Mod scenario called domestic. The other one is not ready.

[WesW]

UPDATE ALERT: New text version available.

Remember, you don't have to get the graphics files again unless specifically stated.

Sorry about the crashes, guys. I didn't realize that altering the unitbuildlist.txt would crash the domestic version. I apoligize for accusing P-man of loading the wrong version, when I had made the mistake.
I have added a version of unitbuildlist.txt which has the new build lists, but not the new units. Now, the AIs will switch build lists depending on the situation. You may not notice a great improvement to their unit choice due to the fact that there not really enough units in the standard version of the game to fill out all the new lists. However, you should see some things that are different, so let me know what you do or do not notice.

I have also drastically reduced the amount of gold that the AIs start with in the game. I think that this was accounting for the large starting advances the AIs had. They could rush-buy about everything available on the two hardest levels. They started very hard with 2000 gold, and impossible with 8000! With all the units you guys were reporting, this may have actually hurt them in the long run by giving them high unit support costs from the outset of the game. Now they start with 750 and 1000, respectively.
I also reduced the number of advances they started with on impossible from 8 to 6, and reduced the human penalty in science and food on very hard.
I have also reduced the science handicap for the human player from 25 to 20 for all levels. This is the amount of extra science points added to advance costs for each advance you have discovered. (This is why the number of turns to discover an advance sometimes increases when you get another discovery through trade or goody hut.)
All of these things should reduce the starting advantage of the AI relative to the human, without substantially affecting AI performance in the long run.

Finally, I greatly reduced the chances of starting with an extra settler. It seems that I get the extra settler 90% of the time on very hard level.

Also, I have added three new ages to the game, the Classical, Medieval and Industrial. I only have new city sprites for the Industrial, which come from Harlan's Ctp1 mod.
The Ancient and Classical eras will use the current Ancient sprites. The Medieval and Renaissance eras will use the current Ren age sprites. The Industrial age will use Harlan's Industrial age sprites. The remaining three ages will use their current sprites. Btw, I have re-named the Genetic age to the Computer age.
I have noted the years when all the ages begin at the top of the Advances chart, which is included in the new text upload. What do you think about changing the Diamond age, which will begin in 2040, to the Genetic age?

Be sure to look over the new advances chart, since we are about finished with the placement of advances and the things they enable. It has been a lot of work. In fact, it has been about all I have done this week. Classes start again Monday, so I hope to have everything settled by the end of the weekend. I am detailing all of the changes in this aspect of the mod in the advances thread.

Pink, don't pay any attention to the advances referenced in the "units" version units.txt. I had a mix-up with Paul when I asked him to alter that file for me. He put in the advances as they were listed in the Med charts, which didn't need to be done.

[Pintello]

Hi Wes,

There are a lot of discrepencies between your Advance Chart and what is found in your Units.txt and Advance.txt files. Some examples are as follows, but they are by no means the only ones.

Chart says Battleship comes with Modern Metalurgy, but Units.txt says Advanced Naval Tactics. Advanced Naval Tactics doesn't even appear on your chart.

Units.txt says Sea Engineer comes with Nano-Assembly, but Chart says Ultra-Pressure Machinery.

Chart says Oil Refining is the Prerequisite for Modern Metallurgy, but Advance.txt says Age or Reason and Iron Working.

These are just a few discreptancies. There are many more, but I don't have time to isolate them all right now. Mayby I will later.

Just a heads up for you.

Timothy Pintello

[preacherman]

Martock, did you try to load a saved game with second text update? I did the same thing and got major crash. need to start new game.
Wes, couple problems.
1. set a embassy with one civ then he killed my diplamat. yet we did not go to war on deiplomicy screen.
2. I had my game reduced and went to city screen and the computer crashed.
3. crime, I am in the year 1980 with 16 citys largest is a 12. I am producing 2035 and losing 483 production points to crime. I have 11 citys with courthouses. with this much lost to crime it cuts into how much of an army you can have. Might want to see about city improvment to help cut crime. I know that I have never been able to beat the AI's to Chichen Itza, so another wonder wouldn't be much help. It does make the game very intersting though.
My computer goes into shop for new mother board today so will be back in couple weeks.

[Alpha Wolf]

Wes,
I made very silmiliar changes to my game as to the advantages the AI starts with. Its helped alot. I had to, because one game the AI rush built ChichenItza on the 3rd turn. Didnt even get a message that it was started, just one that said it was complete. Talk about a shocker. I've only been playing on Impossible and lowerd gold to 5000 and they dont seem to be going too crazy buying everything. Besides, they need a few units for when the barbarian hordes come sweeping across. In most of my games, at least one civ will be overrun by the barbarians

------------------
History is written by the victor.

[WesW]

UPDATE ALERT: New advances chart posted.

Tim, it's like I told Pink- I have not yet begun to edit the text files to match the advances chart. We are not yet through deciding on new advances and so-forth. Once we get everything settled, I will send the necessary text files to Gedrin so that he can place them in his Chop spreadsheet. Then I will begin altering the text files and hopefully have the beta ready by sometime next week.

P-man, I don't know off-hand what would cause the things you listed in your post regarding the Diplomat.
I would suggest building Correctional Facilities for the crime, and maybe switching governments.

[PinkFriend]

As I've seen AI come to attack more often. But it is not enough. What's the way to do AI more agressive? Can it fight the others and conquer my and other AI's empires? And will it make alliances and peace treaties with other AI's?

[PinkFriend]

As I've seen AI come to attack more often. But it is not enough. What's the way to do AI more agressive? Can it fight the others and conquer my and other AI's empires? And will it make alliances and peace treaties with other AI's?

[Pintello]

Hi Wes,

I have played some with the most recent text update now. Following is what I've noticed.

The first game I played I lost. I wasn't defeated per se, but I was so far behind everyone else in the post AD years that there was really no hope of catching up. This I think was a combination of a bad start and lots of problems with Barbarians. I didn't even get my second city until after 0 AD. Like I said, I was in bad shape.

I started a second game. This one went quite a bit better. I got a good start and even make 2 peace treaties with the Hebrews and the Native Americans. Both seem to be keeping them very well and are extremely happy with me. I will try to get an Alliance with the Hebrews soon. This will protect my southern flank from that "evil genuis" Gahndi of the Indian civilization and it will allow the Hebrews to expand in areas on the otherside of my empire. There is more than enough room there for both of us and it will make a good buffer between me and the Zulus who really don't like me for some reason. It may have something to do with my conquering of an isolated Zulu city that was very close to my capital, but who knows. :-)

I have some observations about the AI behavior.
1) The Barbarians can really mess you up now. For evidence I use my first aborted game.
2) The AIs seem to be more aggressive, but they still have a hard time actually getting up the nerve to attack you directly. Alpha Wolf has posted some modified files on his website, that he says has made the AI quite a bit more aggressive and hard to beat. he says that using these files, he has even lost some cities to the AI. Those might be worth looking at.
3) The AIs are very good at managing their empires both economically and scientifically. I am last in both areas in my current game, even though I have 6 cities, which is about the same number of some of the middling empires. I am also last militarily, but I have not seen where any AIs have conqured any others. Not in this game anyway. One AI did take a city of another AI in the last game that I abandoned though.
4) I haven't seen any slavers in this game, but I did in the other game so the AIs are using those if they are of that kind of personality.
5) I am still not seeing much of an Navy on the part of the AI.
6) In their older and larger cities, the AIs are doing a fairly credible job of defending them with a fairly good mix of ranged and assault troops. Seems to be about 40% defense/assault troops, when you include militia, to 60% ranged. The result is that you are not likely to be able to take a well established AI city without atleast 1 stack of 12 and 2 may be needed even in the relatively early part of the game. This bodes well for the AI when units like the Infantry and cannons come out. It may be very hard to challenge then. At least in regards to taking over its cities.

I will play this game much further out and give you more information as I discover it.

Thats all for now.

Timothy Pintello