Diplomod V3.0

[Martina]

quote: It should be easy to find this section. By putting in this 'catch' it should halt the AI in it's more favourable diplomacy that I've programmed (...) Hope this helps and let me know.

Hi Dale,

Yes it did help perfectly, so the "bug" is removed. If at war, the AI will reject blunt advance requests from my side. Many thanks for this !

Still, in my testing so far, an AI not being at war with you will give you any advance with nearly 100% chance even if you don't offer anything in return. That fits a little bit in other players' perception of "too easy".

I know this phenomenon is discussable (some might like it, some might not like it), however is there an easy way out of it ?

Kiss,
Martina

[Dale]

Okay folks, it's time for discussion here about the offer maps/advance problem. Remember also that there is an internal bug I can't fix related to advance requests.

1. The AI never used to swap maps - fixed.
2. Request to speed up AI's 'exploring' - fixed by increasing chance of AI's offering maps to each other.
3. Now there's a request to slow down the AI's offering maps to each other, or to have them only swap maps with civs they know.

As it stands, there is no way in SLIC to check if one civ has contact with another civ. The script at the moment processes considerations for offering maps to each other from turn 1. If the AI knows where another AI is then there is a greater chance they will setup trade routes enhancing their economic and science ratings. Beneficial to the game. So what do I do folks? How can I 'please' the general audience?

1. Reinstate the original routines which will make the AI refuse everything by default?
2. Eliminate the offer maps routine? Or slow it down somehow?
3. Make the AI refuse to give it's maps to you?
4. Uninstall the whole mod and scrap the lot?

Sorry, the last one was a bit pissy wasn't it? But seriously, what do you suggest? I need ideas of what YOU want to make it happen.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

[Martina]

quote: 1. Reinstate the original routines which will make the AI refuse everything by default? 2. Eliminate the offer maps routine? Or slow it down somehow? 3. Make the AI refuse to give it's maps to you? 4. Uninstall the whole mod and scrap the lot?

Dale,

I think everyone here just wants to shout out one little sentence as overall message: GREAT WORK WHICH SIGNIFICANTLY IMPROVES GAMEPLAY !!!

Besides this, you might want to think about some cosmetic changes to your Mod, however always keep in mind that nearly everyone using your Mod should be much happier now with CTP2.

So my personal answers are:

ad 1: This is not a relevant option at all. You basiscally have implemented the "true" diplomatic model into CTP2, so let's not go back.

ad 2: Slowing down while not eliminating it is for me personally the most preferred option. It might compromise with the AI growth rate, but this can be changed easily in the DiffDB.txt cheat areas (people can do this on their own in my pov rather than including the DiffDB.txt in your Mod).

ad 3: No, but somehow overall make it less probable that the AI gives you maps as gifts. They should only give it to you if they are scared/impressed of you. I know this might not be feasible in SLIC though. Making it refuse automatically is not something I would like to see, so I prefer to live with a "too easy maps to get glitch" rather than eliminating this at all.

ad 4: See ad 1 :-)


Martina

[JSnider]

prefer slowing it down, or if possible an escalating chance of success, so starts low and rises with time or something. thus later in game greater chance vs right away before folks know your a nasty conqueror. And yes this mod with frenzy make the game at least playable and less predictable .. also i always offer something for advances (just cause it don't need to doesn't mean won't simulate that it works right).

so thanx for the great work .. and looking fwd to 3.x
jsnider

[Dale]

Okay, how bout if I try this then:

- Half the acceptance chance of the AI to human proposals.
- Currently exchange AI-AI maps is 10% chance. Have it so for the first 100 turns it decreases from 1-in-110 chance to 1-in-10 chance, decreasing by 1 chance per turn. By then, you're going to know where most of the civs are anyway, if not all.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

[dennis_caver]

Dale - I think the above compromise sounds good. You can't please everybody. So go ahead based on your own
gameplay make the final version and then have some fun.

See Ya out there,
Dennis

[David Murray]

quote: Originally posted by Dale on 01-30-2001 08:17 PM Okay, how bout if I try this then: - Half the acceptance chance of the AI to human proposals. - Currently exchange AI-AI maps is 10% chance. Have it so for the first 100 turns it decreases from 1-in-110 chance to 1-in-10 chance, decreasing by 1 chance per turn. By then, you're going to know where most of the civs are anyway, if not all.

Dale, you're a star.

I think your mod is great, I'm just worried that the AI might become too much of a pushover.

It's a difficult balance, I know, and I'm not doing anything to help, but congratulations on your hard work.

[Dale]

David:
In light of your concern I agree. It is difficult. But I'm getting the balance with all the feedback. Thanks all.

ALL:
I tested my increasing chance of maps theory, and it still went too fast. So I changed it to 1-in-300 chance at the start of the game increasing by 1 point to a 1-in-100 chance by turn 200 where it flattens out. After testing 5 starts to turn 200, the AI has definitely slowed it's map swapping. On average I found that by turn 50 only two civs had swapped maps. By turn 100 up to 4 had, and by turn 200 nearly all. However, on a realistic point, most AI's did not have current information on the other AI's. It was outdated and basic.

V3.2 release:
- Implements above increasing-chance formula for map swapping.
- NEW PROPOSAL: Request/offer break agreements. Can break agreements with a third party. Eg. Have peace treaty with civ[a], civ[b] at war with civ[a], offer to break agreements with civ[a] TO civ[b]. If they accept, civ[a] dislikes you more, civ[b] likes you more.
- Halved AI acceptance of human proposals. Harder to get stuff through an AI now (pointed at advance problem).
- "Catch" put in to slow diplo activity from an AI if at war with you.

Download when Rich puts it in the DB. I believe now that we are at an end for Diplomod development. I feel happy now with how the AI performs diplomacy, between itself and with the player. Thanks for all the support and feedback. BTW, to see what the diplomacy model CAN do, take a look at "treaty.jpg" in the zip file. I got sent that after paying off a civ to keep them happy while I beat the crap out of the Americans. You'd never see that with the normal CTP2 diplo model.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

[JSnider]

If and only if now, as with the adds you plan it sounds great, want to build on increasing chance with time you could postulate that after a certain point the chance would go down again, the old bell curve approach to life. in effect at start they don't know you (so don't trust you), then with time you become familar (increased chance), then with more time they are sure they can't trust you (decreased chance). just a thought ...

jsnider

[OmniGod]

The final is posted now. I couldn't believe the treaty image... I almost fell off my chair. Great work Dale, the game is a billion (that's a British billion) times better than the shipped version. Hope to see some more work from you if it peaks your interest.

Rich

[David Murray]

quote: Originally posted by OmniGod on 01-31-2001 10:50 PM The final is posted now. I couldn't believe the treaty image... I almost fell off my chair. Great work Dale, the game is a billion (that's a British billion) times better than the shipped version. Hope to see some more work from you if it peaks your interest. Rich

Peace treaty? I hope that was sarcasm.

I've had peace treaties proposed to me before in the unmodified CTP2 game...so I guess you guys must be being sarcastic here.

[OmniGod]

I've never had the AI propose to me before. It's always been a hard nosed jack-a__ to me. I may beat the crap out of it's army and sack it's greatest city but never have they offered a treaty. A cease fire, yes... a treaty no. As I said before, I think the AI hates me no matter what I do... I just an evil genius I guess

[MR. SADDAM]

Hey ya AI did that too........Theve always been @$$es to me too.I think they too nice tho.I asked for there capitol and they gave it to me......Then i just built up in the center of there CIV.And i dont care what kind of mods you guys come out with the AI will always
Fortify near your capitol, Use your Roads , and send settlers into your borders.........no diplomod can fix that

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"Over the fence quickly , and save your strength for the top, get over the fence quickly!"-Lou Armistead Rallying his Brigade ;During Pickets charge Shortly before the Union Line Collapsed

[Dale]

quote: Originally posted by MR. SADDAM on 02-01-2001 12:35 AM Hey ya AI did that too........Theve always been @$$es to me too.I think they too nice tho.I asked for there capitol and they gave it to me......Then i just built up in the center of there CIV.And i dont care what kind of mods you guys come out with the AI will always Fortify near your capitol, Use your Roads , and send settlers into your borders.........no diplomod can fix that

I take it you haven't tried the last two versions of diplomod. AI WILL be booted if you get a withdraw agreement out of 'em. Settlers 'n all!

I have never been offered a treaty from an AI till last night. Cease-fires by the barrel loads, but nothing higher.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

[Huysmans_666]

Hi Y'all,

What I'm curious about is, I have frenzy AI 1.04 installed along with the Diplomod 3.1, in earlier version of diplomod you had special routines built in to deal with the frenzyAI, but hows this now, will the 2 mods peacefully coexist or will one beat the other ?

Oh and maybe this is the wrong place and all but ehmm, I installed the Altsci mod...great mod btw, but after that I installed your diplomod 3.1 and if I open a savegame of the AltSci mod I made before the 3.1 implementation, it crashed saying that it can't find a sprite file in it's asset tree.

Can someone please help me ?