Tentative Project - Part Three

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by TheLimey on 11-26-2000 01:41 PM It seems as though, by all accounts, the AI is defending well, but generally attacking badly.

what i have noticed is that generally the ai is not very aggresive. there is a question though: if you never provoke a big ai and often give him "presents", should he ignore all that and start a war against you?

another question is: should each ai act as if it against everyone else(including the other ai's), or should all ai's be against you "underneath"?

quote: The ICS problem still exists because 10 size 1 cities are more beneficial than 1 size 10 city.

the ai doesnt use ics. therefore the problem of ics is left on the human. if the human wants a more challenging he just has to stop "cheating" through ics

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by TheLimey on 11-26-2000 01:41 PM It seems as though, by all accounts, the AI is defending well, but generally attacking badly.

what i have noticed is that generally the ai is not very aggresive. there is a question though: if you never provoke a big ai and often give him "presents", should he ignore all that and start a war against you?

another question is: should each ai act as if it against everyone else(including the other ai's), or should all ai's be against you "underneath"?

quote: The ICS problem still exists because 10 size 1 cities are more beneficial than 1 size 10 city.

the ai doesnt use ics. therefore the problem of ics is left on the human. if the human wants a more challenging he just has to stop "cheating" through ics

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by TheLimey on 11-26-2000 01:41 PM It seems as though, by all accounts, the AI is defending well, but generally attacking badly.

what i have noticed is that generally the ai is not very aggresive. there is a question though: if you never provoke a big ai and often give him "presents", should he ignore all that and start a war against you?

another question is: should each ai act as if it against everyone else(including the other ai's), or should all ai's be against you "underneath"?

quote: The ICS problem still exists because 10 size 1 cities are more beneficial than 1 size 10 city.

the ai doesnt use ics. therefore the problem of ics is left on the human. if the human wants a more challenging he just has to stop "cheating" through ics

[Metamorph]

ICS.

It's been a very long time since I uttered those three letters. The bane of all enjoyment I ever hoped to glean from any civlike game I'd ever played. That evil, nauseating concept, which every single game designer I've ever encountered seemed to simply shirk off as a mythical, magical fairy-tale.

Well, I've fiddled with CtP2 for a few days now, and I have to say that I'm slightly impressed. While ICS is not eliminated, it's certainly hampered by the new resource design model. So I concur heartily in that respect; it's a great idea, and is a bold step toward eliminating ICS altogether.

Furthermore, since "specialization" of tiny cities early in the game is no longer a feasible option (i.e., thowing workers on high food tiles for population, then switching to production tiles to build units), pumping out massive amounts of settlers is no mere feat. So as a cumulative result, building a huge hairy horde of cities is additionally difficult.

Throw in the fact that it's a bit more difficult to advance in government, as well as the presence of more strict city totals per government type, and we're coming along nicely. Many of these concepts, in fact, are clearly derived directly from various mods that were made to try desperately to render CtP1 into an almost playable condition.

Suffice it to say, I tried to ICS, and failed -- and am pleasantly surprised by the fact. I of course intend to go back, learn the precise nicities of the radius production model, and go about attempting exploitation on the micromanagement level and see how that goes. But all in all, so far, things are looking much brighter.

On the ICS front, that is. Wall of Flesh still seems to be a problem. But one nightmare at a time, I suppose...

- Metamorph

[Metamorph]

ICS.

It's been a very long time since I uttered those three letters. The bane of all enjoyment I ever hoped to glean from any civlike game I'd ever played. That evil, nauseating concept, which every single game designer I've ever encountered seemed to simply shirk off as a mythical, magical fairy-tale.

Well, I've fiddled with CtP2 for a few days now, and I have to say that I'm slightly impressed. While ICS is not eliminated, it's certainly hampered by the new resource design model. So I concur heartily in that respect; it's a great idea, and is a bold step toward eliminating ICS altogether.

Furthermore, since "specialization" of tiny cities early in the game is no longer a feasible option (i.e., thowing workers on high food tiles for population, then switching to production tiles to build units), pumping out massive amounts of settlers is no mere feat. So as a cumulative result, building a huge hairy horde of cities is additionally difficult.

Throw in the fact that it's a bit more difficult to advance in government, as well as the presence of more strict city totals per government type, and we're coming along nicely. Many of these concepts, in fact, are clearly derived directly from various mods that were made to try desperately to render CtP1 into an almost playable condition.

Suffice it to say, I tried to ICS, and failed -- and am pleasantly surprised by the fact. I of course intend to go back, learn the precise nicities of the radius production model, and go about attempting exploitation on the micromanagement level and see how that goes. But all in all, so far, things are looking much brighter.

On the ICS front, that is. Wall of Flesh still seems to be a problem. But one nightmare at a time, I suppose...

- Metamorph

[Metamorph]

ICS.

It's been a very long time since I uttered those three letters. The bane of all enjoyment I ever hoped to glean from any civlike game I'd ever played. That evil, nauseating concept, which every single game designer I've ever encountered seemed to simply shirk off as a mythical, magical fairy-tale.

Well, I've fiddled with CtP2 for a few days now, and I have to say that I'm slightly impressed. While ICS is not eliminated, it's certainly hampered by the new resource design model. So I concur heartily in that respect; it's a great idea, and is a bold step toward eliminating ICS altogether.

Furthermore, since "specialization" of tiny cities early in the game is no longer a feasible option (i.e., thowing workers on high food tiles for population, then switching to production tiles to build units), pumping out massive amounts of settlers is no mere feat. So as a cumulative result, building a huge hairy horde of cities is additionally difficult.

Throw in the fact that it's a bit more difficult to advance in government, as well as the presence of more strict city totals per government type, and we're coming along nicely. Many of these concepts, in fact, are clearly derived directly from various mods that were made to try desperately to render CtP1 into an almost playable condition.

Suffice it to say, I tried to ICS, and failed -- and am pleasantly surprised by the fact. I of course intend to go back, learn the precise nicities of the radius production model, and go about attempting exploitation on the micromanagement level and see how that goes. But all in all, so far, things are looking much brighter.

On the ICS front, that is. Wall of Flesh still seems to be a problem. But one nightmare at a time, I suppose...

- Metamorph

[Metamorph]

ICS.

It's been a very long time since I uttered those three letters. The bane of all enjoyment I ever hoped to glean from any civlike game I'd ever played. That evil, nauseating concept, which every single game designer I've ever encountered seemed to simply shirk off as a mythical, magical fairy-tale.

Well, I've fiddled with CtP2 for a few days now, and I have to say that I'm slightly impressed. While ICS is not eliminated, it's certainly hampered by the new resource design model. So I concur heartily in that respect; it's a great idea, and is a bold step toward eliminating ICS altogether.

Furthermore, since "specialization" of tiny cities early in the game is no longer a feasible option (i.e., thowing workers on high food tiles for population, then switching to production tiles to build units), pumping out massive amounts of settlers is no mere feat. So as a cumulative result, building a huge hairy horde of cities is additionally difficult.

Throw in the fact that it's a bit more difficult to advance in government, as well as the presence of more strict city totals per government type, and we're coming along nicely. Many of these concepts, in fact, are clearly derived directly from various mods that were made to try desperately to render CtP1 into an almost playable condition.

Suffice it to say, I tried to ICS, and failed -- and am pleasantly surprised by the fact. I of course intend to go back, learn the precise nicities of the radius production model, and go about attempting exploitation on the micromanagement level and see how that goes. But all in all, so far, things are looking much brighter.

On the ICS front, that is. Wall of Flesh still seems to be a problem. But one nightmare at a time, I suppose...

- Metamorph

[Depp]

Farmers ?
Mark, you don´t need to have them as farmers at all, farmers are useless. All the tiles give enough food if you are not in the srtic, whtou a single sea/ocean square. I always have tons of food left even if I try to build mines and those commercethings. So the food is an issue. I never need to use farmers at all.
If you have a city placed in a normal enviroment you pretty much don´t need a farm at all to reach very high population. This is absurd.
I have placed cities where in earlier games they wouldn´t even grow anything and they easily get to 20 is size, just beacuse they have a few ocean squares. They grow a tad slower but that is all. I want the tile improvements to mean anything, as it is now a nature reserve is great, a farm is a waste of PW.

[MarkG]

hey Metamorph, long time no see...

it's glad to hear you syaing this about ics. i'm one of the guys who just play and dont get into experiments and close looks in the game mechanics

[MarkG]

hey Metamorph, long time no see...

it's glad to hear you syaing this about ics. i'm one of the guys who just play and dont get into experiments and close looks in the game mechanics

[MarkG]

hey Metamorph, long time no see...

it's glad to hear you syaing this about ics. i'm one of the guys who just play and dont get into experiments and close looks in the game mechanics

[MarkG]

hey Metamorph, long time no see...

it's glad to hear you syaing this about ics. i'm one of the guys who just play and dont get into experiments and close looks in the game mechanics

[TheLimey]

quote: Originally posted by MarkG on 11-26-2000 02:45 PM what i have noticed is that generally the ai is not very aggresive. there is a question though: if you never provoke a big ai and often give him "presents", should he ignore all that and start a war against you? another question is: should each ai act as if it against everyone else(including the other ai's), or should all ai's be against you "underneath"? if the human wants a more challenging he just has to stop "cheating" through ics

In answer to the first point, I believe that the AI is not agressive enough. There should probably be a ganging up on the human by most if not all of the AI's, and a more realistic model of trust and happiness, for maintaining Alliances, and getting AI's to agree.

The situation where the AI only agrees to stop trespass is only such an issue, because the player is almost the leader by default. There is no 'middle act' at the moment, and this desparately needs to be changed.

In answer to your second point, I've seen the AI virtually ICS in CtP1 (with medmod)... it remains to be seen how effective it can become in CtP2.

Regarding artifically maintained limitations, these seem so dumb. OCC is such a beast. ICS can definitely be mitigated or destroyed by altering the game mechanics appropriately. If it can be done, it should be done. Theres just no good reason not to.

[TheLimey]

quote: Originally posted by MarkG on 11-26-2000 02:45 PM what i have noticed is that generally the ai is not very aggresive. there is a question though: if you never provoke a big ai and often give him "presents", should he ignore all that and start a war against you? another question is: should each ai act as if it against everyone else(including the other ai's), or should all ai's be against you "underneath"? if the human wants a more challenging he just has to stop "cheating" through ics

In answer to the first point, I believe that the AI is not agressive enough. There should probably be a ganging up on the human by most if not all of the AI's, and a more realistic model of trust and happiness, for maintaining Alliances, and getting AI's to agree.

The situation where the AI only agrees to stop trespass is only such an issue, because the player is almost the leader by default. There is no 'middle act' at the moment, and this desparately needs to be changed.

In answer to your second point, I've seen the AI virtually ICS in CtP1 (with medmod)... it remains to be seen how effective it can become in CtP2.

Regarding artifically maintained limitations, these seem so dumb. OCC is such a beast. ICS can definitely be mitigated or destroyed by altering the game mechanics appropriately. If it can be done, it should be done. Theres just no good reason not to.

[TheLimey]

quote: Originally posted by MarkG on 11-26-2000 02:45 PM what i have noticed is that generally the ai is not very aggresive. there is a question though: if you never provoke a big ai and often give him "presents", should he ignore all that and start a war against you? another question is: should each ai act as if it against everyone else(including the other ai's), or should all ai's be against you "underneath"? if the human wants a more challenging he just has to stop "cheating" through ics

In answer to the first point, I believe that the AI is not agressive enough. There should probably be a ganging up on the human by most if not all of the AI's, and a more realistic model of trust and happiness, for maintaining Alliances, and getting AI's to agree.

The situation where the AI only agrees to stop trespass is only such an issue, because the player is almost the leader by default. There is no 'middle act' at the moment, and this desparately needs to be changed.

In answer to your second point, I've seen the AI virtually ICS in CtP1 (with medmod)... it remains to be seen how effective it can become in CtP2.

Regarding artifically maintained limitations, these seem so dumb. OCC is such a beast. ICS can definitely be mitigated or destroyed by altering the game mechanics appropriately. If it can be done, it should be done. Theres just no good reason not to.