Civ Series Settler Tile Improvement Building

[mapfi]

hm, Dale just write your news item yourself and mail it to Locutus or MarkG and it'll be up in no time, I'm sure

[SMIFFGIG]

Colonies

This code could be very useful if Colonies cant be made to work exactly as in civ3 ie Get worker to go and build it like a settler builds a city.


Instead you could make the colonie a TI and use say the worker unit from civ3 (when its converted) and call him a colonist, he could then go out to a good and would allow u to lay the colonie where he is. He would then dissapear

[mapfi]

PTW Chat

Since probably most of you guys don't bother to read that (I for one like to stay all knowing...) here's what being persistent can get those programmers saying:
from the PTW-Chat Log on Civfanatics:

[17:51] <@Chieftess> Damnit_this_is_PROPAGANDA: Soren or Mike, what do you think of "Public Works" ala CTP2? DO you think
it's better in some ways than the current worker-system?...
[17:51] <+Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS> Prop: never playerd CTP2
[17:52] <+Soren_Johnson_Firaxis> well, it is definitely different... i can see the advantages (of PW), but in my mind, workers are one of the few core civ concepts, so we kept them
...
Mike has no clue... are we suprised? No, not after reading IW's signature so often.
Now I would have expected them to tell of the advantages of the worker system because there certainly are some, like having to protect the workers, stealing them from an enemy, use them to transfer pop, not being able to build at any place but only where you're actually present with a unit (I'd call that more realistic)
...
[17:58] <@Chieftess> Damnit_this_is_PROPAGANDA: Well, to explain it, in CTP2, you set a certain ammount of money into public Works, which is basically like the worker-system, except there are no workers on screen. Depending on much you spend, it'll take either faster or slower to produce that improvement(i.e. farms, roads, mines).
[17:59] <+Soren_Johnson_Firaxis> prop: our general design philosophy is to try not to abstract too much information to not scare away new users. we prefer to have units DO things. make the game more concrete
[17:59] <+Soren_Johnson_Firaxis> but i do understand the management benefits
[18:00] <+Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS> But then there are the players who like to micromanage every little aspect of the game...
...
so PW is too abstract and it's not micromanagement? Ok, hear what they say after Prop keeps asking:
...
[18:04] <@Chieftess> Damnit_this_is_PROPAGANDA: You still micromanage. In order to get the proper use of out of improvements, you need to place them in a beneficial place. It's really no different to the worker-system. Just that you can set a tax on PW, so that you can get the faster and most beneficial output out of it.
[18:05] <+FXS_Speed_Bump> Prop: You do it your way...I'll do it mine I prefer to make my own decisions
...
I mean, why don't they even argue their case??
...
[18:06] <+Soren_Johnson_Firaxis> prop: it is similar and probably wrongly maligned... i'm saying that it's a difference between being concrete and being abstract for a new user. We chose the former
...
So basically - Soren would probably have liked to implement it but it's probably a copyright issue, or what?
Because, honestly otherwise with that concrete-abstract-arguement they are saying that CivIII is a game for _______. And this from the programmers.

edit: the asking guy's name didn't display in the post - now it does...

[Devil of Truth]

CTP2 : 1 - Civ3 : 0
When will they ever learn? Anything they can do, we can do better!

[Pedrunn]

Either he doenst know what he says or is hiding what he thinks.

I take the last.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Devil of Truth
CTP2 : 1 - Civ3 : 0
When will they ever learn? Anything they can do, we can do better!

Wrong...this is how the score looks like:

CTP2 : 0 - Civ3 : 1 (if we only talks about the PW vs workers)

The reason (that the scores looks like that): Civ3 didn't implent the pw system (Thank God for that)

But what Firaxis says, is wrong...he says they kept the workers (settlers) because people like micromanagement...sure, micromanagement is good, but with the pw system, micromanagement just goes WAY too deep (= too much micromanagement)

[Turambar]

pw system, micromanagement just goes WAY too deep (= too much micromanagement)

Sorry but that makes no sense to me. In Civ3 you have to send up to 200 workers (depending on empire size and game stage etc) round you empire in order to build farms / roads etc where as in Ctp 2 you just have to click where you want roads etc to be providing you have enough pw.

How can Public Works be MORE micromanagement?

[Adagio]

In Civ3, they have the automation tool (one click, and done), but even without the automation, it's easier, since you don't have to keep an eye on you pw each turn, and then when having enough money to buy a road, you click tons of times...just to be able to make ONE road...

[Immortal Wombat]

So instead of keeping an eye on PW, you keep an eye on all 40 workers. Simple.

[mapfi]

Not another one, please!!

I was only trying to get this thread back up with some valuable info.
And I thought it was interesting the programmers didn't defend their choice but found lame excuses, as ADG noticed too. As I pointed out there certainly are valuable reasons for the worker system and I think CivIII system is a big improvement over the CivII one. So why aren't they convinced of their own work?

Soren at least tries to make some sense... but Mike - I personally think it's a shame developping such a game without knowing the big games of the genre. Of course you often better start from scratch when designing - but when polishing things off it's pure stupidity not to look at other solutions and tweaks that others have come up with. - and as for Speed_Bump, whoever from Firaxis that is, his comment is a disgrace to the team.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by mapfi
Not another one, please!!

ok, I'll try

[Turambar]

EDIT: Post removed to get back on topic .

[mapfi]

Thanks, because we all know the arguements and we know we have different opinions so we should just let it rest besides maybe making fun of each other from time to time

[Maquiladora]

You started it mapfi

Actually i think basically Mike "ive never played it" Breitkreutz from Firaxis has his head in the sand and Soren was told to stick to the gameplan from the beginning although we can tell he likes PW, he just wants to get paid.

CtP2 1 - 1 Civ3 Soren's sat on the center spot and Mike hasnt seen the ball yet.

*Back on topic*
Who regularly uses this mod then?

[mapfi]

don't blame me. I didn't start a comparison discussion, just a harmless post...

So IW, when are you going to adjust your signature - Mike "never playerd CTP2" Breitkreutz ?

And I wonder - do you think it's been Sid's decision to have those workers as Maq suspects? Or was it only a copyright's issue? If so, if Vel acquires the source code he could let them use it in CivIV then

It's like so not going to happen that I use this mod - then I'd rather play CivIII again(*shudder*). I wonder though too, if anyone has tried it seriously - ADG?