The Medieval Pack II Beta: The Gathering

[David Murray]

Hey, did anyone go and visit that URL I posted? The AI proposed an ALLIANCE to me! I also had another civ ask me to stop research of iron working later in the game...not bad, not bad!


[This message has been edited by David Murray (edited March 25, 2001).]

[Dale]

quote: Originally posted by David Murray on 03-25-2001 09:55 AM Firstly, if anyone's interested, take a look at this: http://members.aol.com/davidwamurray/proposal.jpg I have never had the AI make that proposal to me before, I was quite shocked when I received it! Forgive me if it's old news, but it is a first for me.

Excellent! It's great to see the AI doing this on a PC other than mine. Well, looks like the Diplomacy script has succeeded in it's prime directive (for the AI to propose alliances).

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Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

[Timeline]

quote: Originally posted by David Murray on 03-25-2001 06:57 PM Very sorry, Timeline, I noticed that you did after I posted--I had just forgotten, and was too lazy to edit my message.

LOL, sounds like me.

quote: Big deal, get over it.

Just gets annoying when people report something that we already know about. Hey, it happens, no big deal. Yes, I followed your link, very cool! I like Diplomod alot. The thing I like best is the withdraw slic Dale made. Thanks a lot Dale!


[This message has been edited by Timeline (edited March 25, 2001).]

[joseph1944]

Just reloaded my save game and getting the below message.
"MM2_trymilitia variable 'MM2_trymilitia#tmploc'and No 'name' are different type". I did change the picture 117L.
Also I did the Debug thing before playing the mod.
Earlier today the game was playing great without any crashes. I then did a save so I could go with my wife and now can not reload the save game. My game is between 300 and 0 BC.

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[This message has been edited by joseph1944 (edited March 26, 2001).]

[Timeline]

Updated Bug Report: Well folks, I have done some pretty extensive (and grueling ) tests on Bombarding and Counter-Bombarding, and here is my Bug Report:

Bombards, Cannons, Howitzers, and Catapults cannot counter-bombard.

Stealth Fighters cannot bombard other air units.

Fighters cannot bombard other air units.

Bombers cannot bombard other air units (they are probably not supposed to).

Scout Subs, Nuclear Subs, and Regular Subs *can* bombard other sea units (Are they suppose to?).

PTs cannot go into deep water (this may not be a bug).

I tested all the bombarding combinations I could think and everything els seems to work fine.

Suggestion: Changing the Self-Prop Gun obsolete to Robotics may not be a bad idea. The way it is now you lose it not long after you get it.

Question: Where did te werewolf sprite come from? Please don’t tell me it came from CTP1 . . . LOL. If it did, was it a unit you could build in the game??

Fact: I think, before the public release of Med Mod, we may need to consider two options:

Option 1: Lowering tech costs in the Renaissance Age through Genetic Age.

Or option 2: Altering the timeflow so that things go a tad (and I do just mean a little tad) slower in the Classical Age, a bit slower in the Renaissance Age, and a lot slower in the Modern Age.

Who knows, we may need to do both options . The way things are now, you do not even get a chance to get through all the techs (not by a long shot). I am planning on playing a forth game soon with the express purpose of testing out the timeline. I will play it on medium level, and if I can’t keep up with the tech on medium, then we know we have a problem.

I will keep you posted Wes.

[This message has been edited by Timeline (edited March 25, 2001).]

[Timeline]

joseph1944: I have no idea what is wrong. All I can tell you is what I would do. I would goto C:\Program Files\Activision\Call To Power 2\ctp2_program\ctp\save\games and copy all the folders there (those are you save game files). And then I would reinstall.

Another thing you can try is loading up your saved game and pressing the '-key and type /reloadslic. If your game doesn't laod, then check your userprofile.txt again and make sure debug is set No, one time I thought I pressed save but I didn't.

I am sure when WesW comes he will have a fix.


Has anyone noticed how long it takes to post and edit messages?


[This message has been edited by Timeline (edited March 25, 2001).]

[joseph1944]

Just reloaded my save game and getting the below message.
"MM2_trymilitia variable 'MM2_trymilitia#tmploc'and No 'name' are different type". I did change the picture 117L.
Also I did the Debug thing before playing the mod.
Earlier today the game was playing great without any crashes. I then did a save so I could go with my wife and now can not reload the save game. My game is between 300 and 0 BC.

Sorry for the double post.

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[This message has been edited by joseph1944 (edited March 25, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by joseph1944 (edited March 26, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by joseph1944 (edited March 26, 2001).]

[MrFun]

I read through some of the posts on the last two pages and so now I have a question for Wes.

Do you have an estimate when the polished mod will be released under OmniGod's file section on Apolyton? I am eagerly waiting.

Thanks for all your hard work Wes, and many thanks also go to those who have helped you through their input on this forum.

[joseph1944]

Wes and Company
I finley downloaded your mod last night. It looks great. I ran into two bugs last night and this morning. SLIC error In object MM2_everturn, variable "MM2_everyturn#tmpcity' and 'noname' are of different types. MM2_trymilitia variable 'MM2_trymilitia#tmploc'and No 'name' are different type. I was on turn 110 trying to build a city and the game just started to give me the slic error and would not stop until lock up the screen and made me reboot. Saw your post about the picture and I just change the picture UPUP117L. Will start a new game in a min. to see how it goes.
My computer info P-III 600 w/128 meg, Millennium G 400 32 megs. SB 128 sound card running WIn 98 second addition.

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[janilxx]

Good morning from the Finland again.

Few teesting hours are back again and here are my new comments(version was march 20th again).


Militias:
Here have been many posts about them but I want to tell this to you. All existing militias dies right in that turn I get phalanx. But when I build new city there will be militia(phalanx) so code for militia creation will still work with new cities(only existing cities have the bug). I have only seen spearman and phalanx militias so I do not know anything about other militias.


Feat of wonder(not actually a medmod thing):
Does the player get "around thew world" feat of wonder only when he really sails around the world. Or does it be enough when he gets the whole map around the world. I mean if I will get almost whole map changing maps and then I will sail the rest of the map so I get left and right map parts connected. Will that be enough? (I am not absolutely sure but it seemed that I got this feat of wonder partly because I got maps from the AIs). If I got fet of wonder this way it should not be ok and maybe it could be fixed in medmod?


AIs' does love other AIs:
In 620AD I checked AIs' and they all had smileface regard with other AIs. So I was the only one they needed to fight against. In original CTP2 AIs' usually did have war against all others but now in medmod they love each other This is not good. If you need I can give you AIs' personalities. Just ask.


AI military intelligence:
I(blue) was parked in quite small island(I had about 6 cities there). Orange was in next island. We were in war. Orange was attacking very stupidly!

He had many triremes(only few coracles) and he did transport one unit in time next to my shorecity. Then I of course killed that lonely unit. Then after few turns AI got one more unit to that same spot. And I killed him too.

First of all why did he transport only one unit in time. I am sure he had MANY boats so why didn't he transport many units with many boats at same time? Secondly why did he used triremes to transport units? With coracle he could transport two units in time.

Sometimes he transported a unit next to my city and then attacked against my city with trireme. And then with second trireme. That was a little bit wiser(or was it ?). But why did he attack two times in the same turn. Why didn't he bring those boat together and attack with that army?

It would be much more wiser if he would transport many units a little bit farther from my city. And when he does have many units there then he should attack.

Does medMod even have things that increases AI's intelligence with units in war? Or is it only Frenzymod(or what was that, I had few times read about "a wise AI in war" mod). Could frenzy be attached to the medmod?

And the next thing. Orange had 3 triremes attached next to my lonely coracle. Why didn't he attack? And I saw many times other boats too with my lonely coracle and no one did attack against my boat. Should that be that way?


Too slow timeline:
Many have been said here in forums that tmeline is too slow. I have not played so much that I could comment about that but were you all playing with hard with medium map? MedMod should be now played in medium(right Wes?) and if you are playing with impossible(etc) then timeline might be too slow?


Too many wartechnologies:
I have said this before and I will said this again. I usually would like to play so that I would make some units to defend my cities and then I concentrate to build buildings to my cities. But with MedMod that is not possible. There have been in two games very long perioids when I do not have any buildings available to build. So I need to build spearman(phalanx)-swordman(heavy)-archer compinations too much. And because of that I am usually very high in military rank. But I would like to have almost all the time some buildings available too. Could you even think about changing technologies a little so that there would be more buildings available. That would give me(and to other players too) even a change to play the game other ways too(now it is all the time militiary oriented).


-Jani

[Huysmans_666]

Hi there,

Sorry for not letting you know anything about that pirates mod I've been working on, well it's going good so far but I want to make sure that all my wishes go into release one

But I've bugtested the Medieval mod this weekend, and first of all I just LOVE IT .

At first its very boring, everything takes ages to build but once your past that it's great to take your 12-unit stack and go barb hunting

Here are the errors I noticed and I'm very fussy so excuse me for that :
- First the Castle sprite error ! For normal games etc.

- I noticed that the extra militia you should get with city size don't work
- In 1 of my cities a repeated unit creation/death seqeunce including the sound ! very annoying... it's a fyrdman unit !
- With the discovery that granted me fyrdman all my militie disappeared and did not return except in one of my cities, which still holds one unit !
- Tried to save once, ended up at the desktop
- I spyed on the united_states and then made a peace treaty, all my trade routes with america keep disolving ?
- Also after capturing 2 enemy cities (united_states ) I did not get militia in them !
- I like to build buildings but usefull ones of course, what does the city clock do for one and the harbor....it's very confusing..do these buildings have any use ?
- Withdraw doesn't work on water units ! I have a native american boats that makes the withdraw sound and animation but keeps standing where it is ! very annoying !
- Also, but that secondary.....All of the enemy's cities where poorly defended and when I look at my map...the barbs own half of the continents !
Is this supposed to ?

I also have plus points..... the barbs kick ass...coming at me with stacks of 8+ even 12.
It's great fun !
Oh and all this was in a custom size map 200x250 8 civs and very hard !

For all you people who are happy with a proposal...I had tons of these things ! Are they so rare with y'all ?

Anyways....A lot of work needs to be done..but it's getting there !!!!!
See ya, I'm going to play now

[Timeline]

quote: Originally posted by Huysmans_666 on 03-26-2001 02:19 AM Hi there, Sorry for not letting you know anything about that pirates mod I've been working on, well it's going good so far but I want to make sure that all my wishes go into release one

Cool, I must have missed your thread for your mod, is there one? I would love to find out what it does.

quote: I've bugtested the Medieval mod this weekend, and first of all I just LOVE IT . At first its very boring, everything takes ages to build but once your past that it's great to take your 12-unit stack and go barb hunting

Yes, I found the same, however, I found that things seem to slow down again in the renaissance and modern ages.

quote: - I noticed that the extra militia you should get with city size don't work - In 1 of my cities a repeated unit creation/death seqeunce including the sound ! very annoying... it's a fyrdman unit ! - With the discovery that granted me fyrdman all my militie disappeared and did not return except in one of my cities, which still holds one unit ! - Also after capturing 2 enemy cities (united_states ) I did not get militia in them !

Yes, WesW admits there is still much work to be done on militias. Mainly, there are holes in it everywhere. But these things, I would think, are good to know.

quote: - I like to build buildings but usefull ones of course, what does the city clock do for one and the harbor....it's very confusing..do these buildings have any use ?

For now you must refer to the Med Charts to see what most things do. You must also go there for government stats.

quote: - Withdraw doesn't work on water units ! I have a native american boats that makes the withdraw sound and animation but keeps standing where it is ! very annoying !

Here is a quote from the Modersnotes.txt for Diplomod

quote: Call To Power 2\Med readmes\Diplomod extras All through history, the seas have been a very hard place to patrol and keep control of. The seas constantly change. It's a big place out there (70% of our planet is water!). This is why withdraw will ONLY expel units that are on a land terrain. Anything on a sea terrain square (including planes in flight, units on transports, etc) will be ignored for this simple reason. Also, I saw a situation in V1.1 where the AI was trying to move a battleship through a straight between two islands I controlled, and everytime the battleship hit my border it got expelled. The AI was too stupid to move the battleship around my islands, but for 30 turns kept moving into my border. It will now be allowed to move that ship through my straight to the open seas on the other side. This also allows for pirates to get in and cause you troubles (like English and Portugese pirates kept hassling the Spanish Main).

Makes sense to me.

quote: For all you people who are happy with a proposal...I had tons of these things ! Are they so rare with y'all ?

Well, I would like to know what you mean about the castle sprite bug. If you mean about cities staying as castles and not changing, then I think there is a fix for this at Wes’s site.

Can’t hurt to report all bugs you run into, though.


Timeline

[Huysmans_666]

Timeline: About the expelling of seaunits, okay I understand that, makes sense, but why does the expell animation and sound continue to work.
How about this....after app. 30 turns the boats DID get expelled, it disappeared !

Your right about another thing......Discovering techs takes me again app. 20-30 turns....... seems a bit long to me !

About my pirates mod...well it's not a mod completely but it uses SLIC to get the pirates back onto the oceans....but there are some crucial points which I, as a newbie SLIC'er, can't handle !
So I asked locutus but he's tied up right now, LOCUTUS if you read this, GOOD LUCK man !!!! keep strong !

Extremely sorry for ya !

Hope you feel better soon !

Maybe soon I'll have a beta ready but I have a huge list of things I want in that script before sending it out !
So keep in touch and I'll let you know !

Greetinx

[joseph1944]

Fighters cannot bombard other air units.
The F-15 does carry the M-61 Vulcan cannon and air to air missiles so it should be able to bombard and attack other aircraft. All older fighter should be able to bombard or attack also. WW II fighter aircraft should be able to attack other aircraft plus bombard land and water only. WW I fighter attack only and Bomber, bombard land and water with small attack value because they did carry anti-aircraft guns.

Bombers cannot bombard other air units (they are probably not supposed to).
You are correct. The B-52 gun was removed in the early 80s on the "G and H" model. The B-2 never had a gun. Since I have not been able to get that far in the game any other bomber such as the B-17 should be able to bombard other aircraft. They did carry a lot of anti-aircraft guns.

Scout Subs, Nuclear Subs, and Regular Subs *can* bombard other sea units (Are they suppose to?).
WW I and II Subs did have a 5" inch deck gun plus a 20 mm anti-aircraft gun. Remember torpedo is a long-range weapon for both older and new Subs.
Nuclear Subs do not have guns nor do they carry any anti-aircraft defenses. I believed in the early 70s there were some talk about putting anti-aircraft missile on our subs but it did not happen.

PTs cannot go into deep water (this may not be a bug).
PTs should be able to go into deep water.

Option 1: Lowering tech costs in the Renaissance Age through Genetic Age.
I like it.
Or option 2: Altering the timeflow so that things go a tad (and I do just mean a little tad) slower in the Classical Age, a bit slower in the Renaissance Age, and a lot slower in the Modern Age.
I like it.



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[David Murray]

I have to agree with the ideas about slowing the game down and making advances a bit easier to get...but how about making the game last longer and keeping the advances as they are? I often find the years just whizz by even as I'm doing something mundane like building a road between cities or exploring...maybe if the game was slowed down there would be a lot more historical wars, trade, diplomacy, and not all the action would take place from Classical age onwards. There would be more chances to have naval wars and all sorts if the timeline didn't go so quickly for the first five thousand years.

OH! And please, please! Implement Frenzy Mod! Or a modified version of it! I can't stand this old AI regime, the one that only keeps its units in its cities...I would rather have it come out and fight than stay at home and fortify! And when I have multiple stacks on my home front bombarding, pillaging and harrassing me, I think less of international conquest.

The AIs tend to love each other too much...I think the same-government slic should be removed. The only time that governments get along is when the governments are peaceful and democratic. Even then, though, they can often have problems with each other. The Monarchies of the renaissance periods battle constantly (France, Britain, rest of Europe). The Soviets and Chinese weren't always the best of friends, their relationship cooled when Krushchev denounced Stalin (the Chinese were rather fond of Stalin). Of course, there are examples of ideologies sticking together--fascism is probably the most notable--but overall, I don't think that slic is needed.

BTW good work Dale...the AI is making all sorts of proposals. Today, my allies gave me a gift of 100 gold completely off their own back--I didn't even have to ask. We also have a reciprocal exchange of advances going--so when I get a new advance, the Mayans ask me to give them the research. I do likewise. It's almost like what the science pact should have been.