The Medieval Pack II Beta: The Gathering

[Starfighter08]

quote: Originally posted by WesW on 03-20-2001 05:08 PM I had an awful time trying to get civs to show up right when I was using the scenario structure. I don't understand how you cannot choose the civ. What happens when you click on the civ's bar?

The empire and emperor name are that of the new civ, but when I click close the "settings screen" shows the civ that I've chosen before the added one (for example English).

quote: Originally posted by WesW on 03-20-2001 05:08 PM Did this happen with a new game using last night's update? (Both have to be true, or you will continue to get the errors from the previous slc code.)

I've installed from scratch and the game where this problem showed was started with the 20th march version (no old game with new version!)

quote: Originally posted by WesW on 03-20-2001 05:08 PM Use cheat mode to turn off the fog of war and see if you can figure out what is happening. Sometimes the borders behave strangely if you conquer cities or found them right next to another civ's border. Also, give some more info on the movement problem. Pinpoint the areas where things are not working correctly, and see if you cannot move when the unit has all of its movement points. Use cheat mode to create new units, close cheat mode, and then try to move them if need be. There were some problems with this in the miliita code weeks ago, so I am interested in hearing confirmed cases of this re-appearing. Btw, someone asked about the debug slic line: You will still need to leave this set to "no". There is really no advantage to ever setting it to "yes", as far as I know.

There is an enemy (war or not does not make any difference here) size 1 city on this tile, but when I close with an army to capture it, the city turns invisible. I can't move to attack it and there seems also to be the ZOC of the city active. Btw the garrisoned troops are able to bombard me

New problem: I've discovered several Renaissance techs and then built new cities (previously had 15 cities for quite some time). In these new cities I'm not able to build bazaars (and no banks of course). Is that the effect of a wonder which "simulates" bazaars or what could be the reason?

[hexagonian]

Huysmans

Could you tell me which files in the default setup my files are overwriting? Everything I did was created/packaged in the scenario structure. I do not think that the files are zipped in a way that would unzip them into the default CTP2 folders. If unzipping the file, it needs to be unzipped into the Scenario folder, where the Alexander/WW2/Samauri scenarios are located. If you want to play it safe, unzip the file(s) onto your harddrive and then place the created folder into that Scenario folder.

I know at least, that I did not do anything to the citysprite files. I made alts to the citysize.txt files but not to the agecitystyle.txt too.

[preacherman]

I have been playing the March 20 version, 6 civ--hard--Roving bands--normal map. only problem so far is the long time to build first settlers and twice I got the following message: In object MM2_EveryTurn, variables'MM2_EveryTurn' and'Noname' are of different types. I am up to 1629 still have militia, embassys were setup again after peace. All citys look normal for the age. I lead in scince and military and almost bottem on economics. but haven't been building gold producers. mostly troups been at war with up to 4 civs at a time. Mod seems to be working much better. I also expearced the delays but they were very short. Barbs not very aggresive, only saw one stack.overall good mod thanks!!!

[WesW]

A quick post today...
There is still a bug in the militia code. In my game, all the Phalanxes were killed, but only one Fyrdman was created. I have notified Wouter, and we will have to wait to see what he comes up with.

Starfighter's report on the invisible city is odd. Is the city located on a Mountain? If it is, then it is related to an earlier city sprite bug I thought I had corrected. If it is on a Mountain, then the city is acting like an underwater city, which belong to the underwater vision class of units. If you attack it, the battle should occur normally.
I will check the city sprite numbers to see if I can figure out the conflict there. I thought for sure that there was none.
Regarding the new civs you tried to add: Sounds like the same problems I ran into. I was only able to solve it by using the new modswapper system, and using the default file structure, rather than the scenario structure. If you are modifying the Med pack and having this problem, I am not sure how to help right now.

I can't see the thread right now, but the guy who posted about the pauses is wrong. The code does not work like that, and I am almost certain that the AI unit had its orders cleared, and changed paths to explore the Ruin. That is where the additional scout unit came from, which would explain the pause.
The message about not enough production to support your units comes from the unit repair code. It means that there was not enough PW stored up to completely heal all your units, not that there are too many of them to support. I will try and make something that gets rid of this confusing message.

The holes in the unexplored portions of the AI's map are due to the Diplomod. This is a minor inconsistency in play, and should not affect AI behavior. The mod works by occasionally creating diplomats outside other AI's capitals and making them establish embassies. The mod does other things, of course, but this feature is what you are seeing.

[Dale]

Just further to Wes's comments on the map-swapping:
In about version 2.2 of diplomacy mod, I noticed a wierd thing that the AI would not consider diplomatic activity with another AI UNTIL it had swapped maps with them. Probably something along the lines of the AI being coded not to propose to a civ when it didn't know where it's capital was. To counter this problem, I coded in the map-swapping routine. (It's not a bug as janilxx mentioned.) Admittedly yes it will create the above maps where you know where someone is but no explored link between the civs. BUT on the plus side, after the AI has swapped maps with another AI, AND has contact with that AI then it will initiate diplomatic activity. And just on contact, the map-swapping routine I coded does not count as "contact" between AI's. It has to wait till it meets one of their units. I've noticed that an AI after map-swapping will hunt down the other civ to create an explored link and "contact".

If Wes feels it necessary I'll cancel the map-swapping routine, but I do really feel it'll lessen the diplomatic side of the game.

------------------
Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

[Starfighter08]

quote: Originally posted by WesW on 03-21-2001 04:45 PM A quick post today... There is still a bug in the militia code. In my game, all the Phalanxes were killed, but only one Fyrdman was created. I have notified Wouter, and we will have to wait to see what he comes up with.

I didn't get any militia unit after the old one becomes obsolete!

quote: Originally posted by WesW on 03-21-2001 04:45 PM Starfighter's report on the invisible city is odd. Is the city located on a Mountain? If it is, then it is related to an earlier city sprite bug I thought I had corrected. If it is on a Mountain, then the city is acting like an underwater city, which belong to the underwater vision class of units. If you attack it, the battle should occur normally. I will check the city sprite numbers to see if I can figure out the conflict there. I thought for sure that there was none.

Indeed it was located on a mountain. I was able to conquer it with grenadiers (it didn't work earlier with fyrdmen however).

quote: Originally posted by WesW on 03-21-2001 04:45 PM Regarding the new civs you tried to add: Sounds like the same problems I ran into. I was only able to solve it by using the new modswapper system, and using the default file structure, rather than the scenario structure. If you are modifying the Med pack and having this problem, I am not sure how to help right now.

Could you tell me, how you added civs using the modswapper system? Do you have to change the original files?

quote: Originally posted by WesW on 03-21-2001 04:45 PM I can't see the thread right now, but the guy who posted about the pauses is wrong. The code does not work like that, and I am almost certain that the AI unit had its orders cleared, and changed paths to explore the Ruin. That is where the additional scout unit came from, which would explain the pause. The message about not enough production to support your units comes from the unit repair code. It means that there was not enough PW stored up to completely heal all your units, not that there are too many of them to support. I will try and make something that gets rid of this confusing message.

Good to know, I got the same confusing "too many units" message.

quote: Originally posted by WesW on 03-21-2001 04:45 PM The holes in the unexplored portions of the AI's map are due to the Diplomod. This is a minor inconsistency in play, and should not affect AI behavior. The mod works by occasionally creating diplomats outside other AI's capitals and making them establish embassies. The mod does other things, of course, but this feature is what you are seeing.

Now I understand why I had so many diplomats around my cities. I built the Forbidden City wonder and of course nobody could establish embassies in my empire but they still tried until the wonder was obsolete.

[Timeline]

Hey All,

Just thought I could maybe help out by making a few comments. Here are some bugs I have encountered that I have not seen reported yet.


Serious Bugs/Problems:

Science seems to advance to slowly, I am in the year 2030 and am just 2 years away from the Railroad!! Either I am just not playin good enough to match the tech to the year, or there are too many advances, or they are too expensive. I don’t know. My pop is 1,932,390, 26 Cities, Research averaging at 1500 a turn. I’ve had no catastrophic wars which might have slowed me down, and I have even enjoyed a little bit of imperial conquest to expand my empire. I started off real good - finding settlers in two goody huts. Has anyone els had this problem?

I noticed there are no overpop improvements until the Industrial Age (Besides the Aqueduct). At first I thought this was a great Idea, it’s a neat way to simulate the pop explosion and massive movement to the cities that occurred in the Industrial Age. However, I think this may be the reason why science advances so slow - you are stuck at size 16 for 2000 years. My suggestion is to perhaps add an improvement in the Classical Age (maybe under engineering advance?) to help with over crowding. Maybe it could be a ‘Bath House’ or ‘Doctor’s Clinic’ or something that fits the times. Don’t suppose you have any pics laying around that would fit the bill? How do you think this would effect game balance?

Another bug I have run into is that of my troops and Catapults/Siege Engines/Cannons dying when *I* bombard someone els. I don’t know what is causing it, but perhaps it is related to the repair slic Wouter made. Usually its only damaged units that are destroyed. It happens to all players, including the AI. Can’t figure out if maybe it’s a counter bombard slic someone put in a long time ago and forgot about or what, but it’s darn annoying.

Little Things:


Spies (Not Secret Agents) can’t steal advances. They are supposed too, right?

The sprite for the Horse Archer is a gunpowder unit. Probably easy to change.

Advance Chart says the Listening Post is available after Telegraph, but it doesn’t come till Electrification.

Heavy Cavalry doesn’t seem to be any better than light cavalry (except 5 more HPs) and it is ALOT more expensive and costs alot more to maintain.

Chariots are actually stronger than the mounted archer. Although mounted archers are much cheaper to build and maintain, it just seems like they should be stronger too . What’s your opinion Wes? Maybe lower Chariot Attack to 10 and raising Mounted Archer Attack to 10?

I noticed that customized unit sprites have a black background. I know I am being picky, but, is there any way to change them to the standard tile background? For some reason it just doesn’t look right to me for them to have a black background, probably just me though.


All in all this is a great mod. AI is excellent. Game seems to be balanced. Best mod I’ve ever seen for any game. Keep up the fantastic work!


Timeline
[This message has been edited by Timeline (edited March 22, 2001).]

[Dale]

quote: Originally posted by Timeline on 03-21-2001 10:36 PM Hey All,

Hey yaself.

quote: Another bug I have run into is that of my troops and Catapults/Siege Engines/Cannons dying when *I* bombard someone els. I don’t know what is causing it, but perhaps it is related to the repair slic wouter. Usually its only damaged units that are destroyed. It happens to all players, including the AI. Can’t figure out if maybe it’s a counter bombard slic someone put in a long time ago and forgot about or what, but it’s darn annoying.

This is "counter-bombard" as you noted. It's realistic, and good in my opinion, and deliberate.

------------------
Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

[janilxx]

quote: I can't see the thread right now, but the guy who posted about the pauses is wrong. The code does not work like that, and I am almost certain that the AI unit had its orders cleared, and changed paths to explore the Ruin. That is where the additional scout unit came from, which would explain the pause.

Ok, I believe you

quote: The holes in the unexplored portions of the AI's map are due to the Diplomod. This is a minor inconsistency in play, and should not affect AI behavior. The mod works by occasionally creating diplomats outside other AI's capitals and making them establish embassies. The mod does other things, of course, but this feature is what you are seeing.

I do not agree with you. This is not a minor inconsistency because when you share maps with AI you might get map with "the holes" and then you know where some AI's are. That should not be that way. I myself really would like to get information of other players in "right way" not with the "hole map".

By the way why does the mode create diplomats outside enemies capitals? What is the main reason? Is that necessary?


--
Edited:

Dale/Wes: Damn I replied to Wes before I read your comment about map swapping. So you know best what is good for AI. If map swapping is a really good thing that improves AIs then let them swap maps.

I want mostly the Ai to be as smart as possible
--

quote: and I am almost certain that the AI unit had its orders cleared, and changed paths to explore the Ruin

How about the situation where unit sees ruins but is not next to ruins. Does the unit then go to ruins? This came to my mind because in my first long post(in this thread, page 2) I said that I saw ruins very near AI's capitol and there were many turns played(so it is almost sure that AI have been disccovered those ruins). IMHO there should not be ruins near AI -cities after AI have discovered those areas. I hate when I get easy ruins near AI.

Jani

[This message has been edited by janilxx (edited March 22, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by janilxx (edited March 22, 2001).]

[Huysmans_666]

Hi there

Hexagonian: No, I don't mean any of the textfiles, they unzip nicely in the scenarios folder but one of the sprites or pictures, and with all these mods there are so many ! I don't know exactly which one sorry !

Dale: Just for laughs....got the scare of my life yesterday...I loaded a savegame in which i'm very succesfull and after installing diplomod 3.4 it gave me a ****load of erros, incredible !!!
Then I remembered you streamlined all the files in one so the script.slc file should now say..... // #include withdraw.slc
Forgot that mate !

After restarting all was well, btw did you mention that in your readme for people who upgraded from 3.2 (3.3 was a bit buggy I read )

Oh and another thing...how do you reload slic without going to the cheat menu. I thought `` reloadslic but that don't work !
Well hope to hear from ya !

Bye Bye now !

[janilxx]

quote: Originally posted by Huysmans_666 on 03-22-2001 03:24 AM Oh and another thing...how do you reload slic without going to the cheat menu. I thought `` reloadslic but that don't work ! Well hope to hear from ya !

I read somewhere once that you can reload slic from chat window(?). Did dot(.) give you the chatwindow? I am not sure. And there type /reloadslic or something like that.

I might be wrong

[Locutus]

I'm dealing with some personal issues now so I don't have much time for fixing bugs at the moment but I have a few remarks:

Wes is probably right about the goody hut thing, though I'm not so sure about that message. The message of the unit repair code is "Sire (or some similar title, L), we do not have enough Public Works to pay for the repairs of our mighty armies, we should increase the amount of production that is allocated to Public Works or build less Terrain Improvements.". There's also some message in standard game that begins with "We cannot afford to supply so many military units..." (don't remember the rest of the message and I don't have access to the game files at the moment), as janilxx described. So it's possible that the message isn't from the unit repair code but is caused by something else, though I have no idea what that could be. To get rid of the unit-repair message altogether, outcomment line 717 in MM2_scenario.slc ("Message(1, 'MM2_NotEnoughPW_M'); // give message that more pw is needed") by putting // in front of it.

Preacherman,
Did you set DebugSLIC in userprofile.txt to No? That *should* get rid of those annoying error messages.

Dale,
I don't claim to be a diplomod expert, but how about triggering the automatic map-exchange when civs make contact, like this:

HandleEvent(ContactMade) 'MapSwap' post {
// map exchange routine
}

No idea if this will work, but it would seem to solve the problem of no diplo contact and still keep prevent those weird maps from occuring...

Huysmans,
open the chat window with the '-key and type /reloadslic. Janilxx was almost right

[Pintello]

Hi Wes,

I have finally gotten some time to try your mod and I am having a problem with it. I am using Windows 2000 and at first I was not able to even get to the screen to try and start a new game. I fixed this by adding the Intro Movie back into the Mod. Windows now lets me get to the screen where I select my player etc... This screen even shows me the new players Harlan added in there.

Once I select all of this, I try to start a game. Here Windows 2000 kicks CTP 2 out again. I have loaded the Mod files directly into Activision's file structure thus by passing the whole Mod Swapper all together, so I know this is not the problem. I also use the modified Gamefile.txt, newsprite.txt, and Great_Library.txt, so the problem is not here. Slic Debug is set to No, so the problem is not here. The only change I have made to your files is to put the Intro Movie back into the MM2_victory.txt file. This is what permitted me to get this far.

My question is this. Is there some other file that you have told the Med Mod not to load? I ask this because the game seems to be looking for something to load the playing map, but cannot find it, so it crashes.

I look forward to seeing your response.

Timothy Pintello

[janilxx]

Its me again

More tests and the AI was stupid again

I regueasted map from the AI and offered my map in change. AI did not accepted that but he countered that and then hi reguested my map in change

Quite stupid

I am quite sure it was that way but that sounds so stupid that after I slept over the night I am not sure anymore. But you should check is that possible.

[Starfighter08]

Ooops, posted 2 times...
[This message has been edited by Starfighter08 (edited March 23, 2001).]