Modern Scenario

[kormer]

I'm working on a modern scenario right now. I'm planning for it to be a behemoth. I would like to use omnigods world map, but I also want more than the usual 8 civs to use. If anyone has comments or suggestions go ahead and let me know. I'm going through and adding cities right now. First topic of debate, should I include several european nations that are allied, or include them all as 1 nation, the europian union. If I can get more civs added to omnigods world map I may try doing a limited modern mod with modern nations, IE, add Iran instead of persia.

[jkadabomb]

Can you make it like the Civ2 ,21st century scenario? That was my most scenario of all time. Make sure you have India as an independent civilization.

[Chris B]

What about alliances, such as NATO, for instance??

[kormer]

jkadabomb, I'll have to experiment around with the number of nations I can have. With a 700mhz athlon playing the 28 civ map palpatine made takes 15 minutes a turn by the middle ages. I definately will have the india/pakistan thing in there, even if I have to reduce pakistan/iran/iraq into one large nation for the sake of gameplay.

[OmniGod]

From eariler testing about a scenario such as what you are planning, there are limits to the number of civs available for a scenario start (such as Alexander). That limit is 8 civs... no more. If you started it, the number was automatically reduced to 8 civs. Unless there has been changes in the patch, which I haven't noticed or seen skorpion post on then I believe you must limit your civs to 8. There is a topic posted about the civ2 scenario and the plans that were started and are presently on hold until the end of my exams. I suggest you read that post before starting further on the project. It's better to waste 3 hours reading than 50 hours doing. Just a thought.

Scenario limits post... http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum44/HTML/000124.html
Modern Scenario post... http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum44/HTML/000141.html
Rich
[This message has been edited by OmniGod (edited January 14, 2001).]

[kormer]

Omnigod, from reading that I gather there is no way to get more than 8 civs onto your map without redoing the entire thing correct? I wouldn't go with all 40 civs in my scenario, but I could do some interesting thing with a few more than 8 civs. For starters you wouldn't need to make silly alliances that wouldn't make sense in real life. An african alliance would in the long run be too powerfull. On the other hand, 2 african nations, with say a muslim nation in control of north africa would be very realistic. Maybe even add in a barbarian city or 2 in the middle of africa to simulate the constant civil wars going on.

[kormer]

Ok omnigod I finally got it figured out after playing around with the editor for a while. Save your entire map as one big clip. Then, start a new game on a random map with how ever many players you want, 15, 20, 28, and go into cheat mode and load the clip. Now you will have your map with more than 8 players.

[jkadabomb]

Well just make it like the 21st century Civ2 scenario, worked fine with 8 Civs. Here is my suggestion, European Union, NATO(Balkin countries), China, Russia, Africa as one nation(maybe add lots of barbarians in there continent since they fight alot), South America, etc. I do see a couple of problems however, It would be hard to make small but powerful countries like Japan and Isreal decent since they only make up a small area. Maybe make Isreal and Japan both have 2 cities with Japan having tons of improvements in there city and make Isreal have tons of Powerful military units right outside there cities since each city can only hold twelve units. Also I dont know what you should do about totally insignificant yet large countries like Canada and Mexico. How bout combining North America as one and Mexico with South America? Also maybe adding a Taliban Civ by the middle east, and a Former Soviet Union for those countries that are no longer with Russia. It would be nice if you could get about 20 civs on the map, each with UNIQUE units for their country. Of course I am probably asking for too much but I am really look forward to this scenario. If you cant really add any more Civs then 8, I say just do it exactly like the 21st century Civ2 scenario. I dont think my comp will have a problem with 20 civs however

Here Are my specs:

I got Atholon 900mhz
256mb pc133 ram
40gig 7200rpm ata100 hard drive
32mb geforce2 mx vid card.

[jkadabomb]

Oh Ya, are you starting the scenario from back when CTP2 normal game starts? Or are you going to make it just a modern age scenario with each turn taking up about 1 month??? That would be really cool.

[Basileus of the Romans]

You must keep in mind not to create a power vaccum in the areas of the world. Each nation must have some borderin countires to make the player's think of possible diplomatic and military reprocussions.

Example.

Say that you added the cities that make up Canada to the American civ. A player that wanted the Canadian cities would be loathe to attack a military and economic behemoth like the United States, but might consider it if Canada was a seperate nation.

Likewise with Europe.

Let us say that the player controlled the United States, and needed European support. The Britsh, for example, tend to get along with the Americans, as do the Germans. The Americans do not get along well with the French, and the British do not get along well with the Spanish. Europe should perhaps be divided into nations.

Each "power bloc" should be broken up into at least 3 different nations. With a maxium of 40 nations availalbe at your disposal, I shall leave it to your imagination and creativity on which nations shall be included, but I propose the following:

The Americas:
United States (also gets military forces in Cuba, Japan, Korea, and in Europe)
Canada
Mexico
Cuba
Colombia
Brazil
Argentina

Europe:
England
France
Germany
Spain
Italy
Scandinavian States (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Iceland)
Russia (also gets Serbia)
Baltic States (Lativa, Lithuania, Estonia)
Greece (gets Crete and maybe Cyprus)

Middle East:
Isreal
Turkey
Iraq
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Egypt
Pakistan

Africa:
South Africa
Nigeria
Kenya
Algeria
Libya
Congo

Asia:
China
India
Vietnam
Japan
South Korea
North Korea

Oceania:
Australia
New Zealand
Indonesia

All other nations not mentioned should be controlled by the "United Nations" civilization, which will be eithe rallied or at peace with most, if not all of the rest of the civs. The U.N. should be unplayable.
[This message has been edited by Basileus of the Romans (edited January 15, 2001).]

[kormer]

Jkadabomb, it will be a modern age scenario starting at the dawn of the new millenium. I finally, after much tinkering, managed to get the 16 civs I wanted into omnigods world map. Here are going to be my starting civs:
1. America
2. Canada
3. Mexico/central america/carribean
4. Brazil
5. Latin Americans/peru/argintina/columbia
6. Nigerian
7. Zulus, Nigerians will control the central parts of africa, zulus will control south africa, and a muslim nation will have the mediteranean coastline. Also several barbarian cities will be in and around the congo area
8. Europe including england and mainland europe. I may put in sarejove as a barbarian civ, with nato units about to conquer it.
9. russia
10. china
11. japan, omnigods map has plenty of room for a few japanese cities, I'll start them out ahead techwise and they should be playable
12. Australia
13. indonesia/polynesia/vietnam/cambodia that whole region of southeast asia
14. India
15. Muslim nations of iran/iraq/pakistan, maybe I might add in kazikstan even though they wouldn't belong. Basicly this is the "bad boy" civ
16. "good guy" muslim civ, egyptians, saudi arabia, kuwait, also I'm giving them all of north africa to morroco since that area is mostly muslim.

I'm going to try hard not to make this an american-centric scenario where you win no matter what if you play the americans.

For tile improvements I will be giving most everyone advanced mines/farms/etc, with an exception or 2, I may give japan hydroponic farms and heavily develope their lands compared to others.

Units will be mostly modern era units. The US will start out with a stealth fighter/bomber or 2, but mostly interceptors. If anyone knows how to keep building interceptors after stealth has been discovered please tell me. I'm thinking I would like to make stealth units prohibitively expensive to build, so that having 1-2 would be nice, but you can't have an entire fleet of them. Settlers WILL BE BANNED, this will prevent certain civs such as china and russia from over expanding, ie, there is lots of land in siberia, but none of it is developed and I would like to keep it that way.

Gametime will increment in months, and techs and building time will also be slowed down.

Right now all my planning is just about done, main concepts are in place so I've begun placing cities around the globe. I have a bunch of cool ideas I would like to do with slic so I'll probably ask for a volunteer to help me out later in the project. Also if anyone has any images for modern age units I might be able to implement that would also be awesome.

[kormer]

Basileus of the Romans,

I did think of your ideas. Last night I toyed around with the game a LOT. Basicly I found out what I had known from a game I just quit playing, the turn length increases exponentially with the number of civs. On a game with 28 civs with the world completely covered it was taking 15 minutes for each turn on a 700mhz computer. Maybe in the future with better computers and AHEM, activision, a better civ game and editor we'll play with all 100+ countries in the world.

I originally had planned on making europe seperate countries, but with the EU it makes sense now to group them into one country. I have some cool ideas I would like implemented with slic there. For example, if you play the EU and don't meet certain economic or scientific goals within 10 years, a random country will break off and go on its own way. Just imagine you are playing and you get a message, "The people of France have grown tired of your petty wars and stagnant economy and have decided to leave the union."

As for your ideas about combining certain countries to prevent wars, thats a job for the guys reprogramming the AI. I will be starting out certain countries allied. Maybe someone could add something to the ai so when deciding to declare war on say, canada, they would also check the strength of canadas allies. Also keep in mind I am trying to keep america from being a superpower even though they are for the sake of gameplay.

[jkadabomb]

Will all the Civs be playable? I look foward to playing India. I could care less about playing the other Civs. Also what about Isreal?? Isreal is something extremely major you left out. When do you not here about Isreal in the world news? It would be interesting to see how a scenario with this played out in the mid east. Set all the mid east countries to extreme hate with Isreal and vice versa but not war. I really cant wait to see this scenario, especially with the Diplo/Frenzy Mod coming out soon. Oh ya, one more thing kormer, do you plan on adding any new units to the mod? Are you going to revise the tech tree any? I like how things look kormer, good job.

[kormer]

Jkadabomb,
Isreal I'm not sure what to do with. In the world map I'm using there is only room enough for 1 city in israel, and that would be crunched in. There is no way it could be a seperate country. I maybe put in jerusalem and give that to USA.

As for the tech tree, there are loads of things I would like to do with that. I want a cruise missle that destroys buildings, a long range icbm warhead that costs a ton to build. Then I could put a barbarian city in north korea and just have it crank those out. If you are playing USA then you need to stop korea in 10, 15 turns or else... I would like to add a low cost low maintenence conscript unit. If you know how to add units, techs or whatever go ahead and make a mod, I will gladly include it in my scenario.

I'm nearly done placing all the cities. Soon as thats done(tonight hopefully) I will post it for you.

[jkadabomb]

For Isreal, I dont know if this will work but how bout just making to cities? and then add TONS AND TONS AND TONS of military units surrounding and also do all the best tile improvements around it. Isreal is very small and doesnt really have any allies, not even the US is fit to own it. I think it is more feasable to add Isreal to the EU. Heck bible prophesy says that the Prince Of peace that unites the world will come from European Union and make there throne in Isreal when they bring world peace for 7 years(pls lets not discuss this), so I think Isreal should be with EU.