Ctp Competition Rule Discussion..

[J Bytheway]

Has anyone ever actually had a war in space with Phantoms, etc.? Ever actually conquered a space city? Just curious...

As for limits on nukes, perhaps you shouldn't exclude the nanite defuser...

[Swissy]

Originally posted by J Bytheway
Has anyone ever actually had a war in space with Phantoms, etc.? Ever actually conquered a space city? Just curious...

As for limits on nukes, perhaps you shouldn't exclude the nanite defuser...

In the US pbem game I think there were a few space cities taken. But these were taken from barbarians as Don's civ went into total revolt. I have not seen a non-diamond start that used Phantoms.

As for the Nanite Difuser, if player correctly the games would be over before the Difuser came online. With nukes, marines, tanks, space fighters/planes I see a rather quick resolution in early genetic. To many attack possibilities, not enough defenders once space opens up. That is why I have been saying the first to space planes should win. It is alot like first to SOL on a regular island map. The other player is just caught in catch-up mode. But since the modern weapons are much deadlier, I see little chance of catching up.

[yoda]

space game

Originally posted by J Bytheway
Has anyone ever actually had a war in space with Phantoms, etc.? Ever actually conquered a space city? Just curious...

As for limits on nukes, perhaps you shouldn't exclude the nanite defuser...

Dr. Doom and I have played from ancient into late diamond age. We battled with star cruisers and phantoms, etc... Doom had about 20 space cities at that point to my 12. However, it was only because we were relatively passive in the earlier ages.

[yoda]

Play Testing

Just played another test game today on the comp2 map with Dr. Doom. 1265AD, just getting to space flight. Neither of us built many (if any) oil refineries. We both built recycling plants and we were still NINE (that's 9) turns away from a disaster. Disasters have to be turned off somehow. Either by a default setting or by turning off pollution. Otherwise, the exercise is pointless when two fairly evenly matched people play.

We had lots of combat. In total, I think 8 cities were taken. Having a navy is basically a waste of time unless you can somehow get WAY ahead of the other person in tech. No nukes were used. As for the argument that there should be no restrictions on nukes, I'll play you a game sometime and show you just WHY nukes should be excluded. Two or three nukes used against the same city will totally wipe it out no matter how big it is. Now, take out the top 3 or 4 science cities of your opponent... GAME OVER! Wasn't that fun and a good test of skill. No need to mention the nuke/paratrooper attack... LOL

As for the race for space planes/fighters and he who gets there first wins, there are defenses against that type of attack. However, if you are that far behind in tech, it's game over anyways!

[Swissy]

Re: Play Testing

Originally posted by yoda
As for the argument that there should be no restrictions on nukes, I'll play you a game sometime and show you just WHY nukes should be excluded. Two or three nukes used against the same city will totally wipe it out no matter how big it is. Now, take out the top 3 or 4 science cities of your opponent... GAME OVER! Wasn't that fun and a good test of skill. No need to mention the nuke/paratrooper attack... LOL

If you allow an opponent to get close enough to uses nukes on your big science cities, you deserve to lose. Forward defense is the name of the game here. The player who can strike at his opponents science/production while keeping his own secure SHOULD win. As I said before, this is just the same game we always play, just taking 6-8 hours longer to complete. Instead of stacks of tanks/marines on a reg land map, or SOL /muskets on a reg island map; we will be using interceptors/paratroopers or spacecraft/nukes/marines (for the most evenly matched players).

Reports I am getting lead me to think these games are going to take longer than we originaly thought. I have heard that test games have upward of 60+ cities a side, turns after contact of 20-30 mins a side, and higher turn times as combat is initiated even on a limited scale. Considering the difficulties of time zone differences and real life, we may be better served with a game that would take 4-6 hours to complete, not just to get to initial contact. Or else we may be well into 2003 before we see the final match started.

[Solver]

After reading this all, BOY you guys are doing some WORK! Thanks to Quinns, JB, Gav and the others involved, hope we can finally succeed with the map and start soon!

[Gavrushka]

It will be worth it Solver.... The maps are there for all eternity once fixed....no more restarting for bad land....

[yoda]

Start

I say go for it with this map. Even for all players. If, after the first few games, there are too many problems, introduce a new map for the next few games.

However, we still need to decide on some rules. Is there a decision yet? Nukes/no nukes? Pollution/no pollution? Piracy/no piracy? Wonders/no wonders? I am assuming we have decided on 1 settler and 100 gold... If you want the players to vote, here is mine:
no nukes; no pollution; no piracy; no wonders (except for nanite defuser and wormhole sensor). Oh yes, and no rush buy switching and public work tricks. (personally, I don't mind using these tricks, but I don't want to start a big discussion on them )

If the tournament goes to 2004, so be it! Perhaps someone will develop another good strategy game by then.

[Swissy]

Nukes YES (If you can't defend against it you should lose)
Piracy YES (If your getting pirated, your probably lost anyways)
Pillage YES (Ditto)
Pollution YES (Wish there was an easy way to turn off disasters but leave in the black sqaures for very high polluting cities)
Wonders NO (Except Wormhole Sensor and Nanite Defuser)

Let me throw this out for a format:

5 round Swiss System (6 rounds if more than 32 players, 4 rounds with 16 or less)
One month time limit per round, you delay the game you are out.
Win = 1pt, Draw = 1/2 pt, Loss = 0 pt.
If you cannot come to a resolution by the end of the month, and neither player is delaying, the game is declared a draw.

For those not familar with the Swiss System:

First round: Rank players in a relative strength list. I reccommend that after the final entry list is made, each player make an honest ranking. Solver will compile a consensus ranking. Top plays bottom and so on with the middle players meeting.

Second round and after: You play a player with the same point total as you. The only restriction is you may not play a player twice in the tourney.

Idealy the winner will have a perfect score, but one loss may not necessarily knock you out. And everyone gets to play at least a couple games that are competitive. If a tie for first exists at the end of the final round, you can either split the pot or have a winner take all playoff.

[yoda]

Originally posted by Swissy
Nukes YES (If you can't defend against it you should lose)
Piracy YES (If your getting pirated, your probably lost anyways)
Pillage YES (Ditto)
Pollution YES (Wish there was an easy way to turn off disasters but leave in the black sqaures for very high polluting cities)
Wonders NO (Except Wormhole Sensor and Nanite Defuser)

Pollution: I do believe we can turn off disasters using a default file. We can simply set the pollution levels so high that we'll never reach them.

Pillaging. Yes, I agree
Piracy. Sure, as long as I'm host. Too many bugs in the game for the non-host player.
Nukes... Swissy, interested in playing a game?

[Kralj Matjaz]

Guys how about having referee in each game?
Referee would be a host of three player game. He would be placed in one tile rock in the middle of the ocean and just monitor the game.

[quinns]

My votes:
Nukes: Yes ( I hate them, but they should be on... it's part of CTP)
Piracy: No (internet games too buggy with piracy on)
Pillaging: Yes
Pollution: On (with disaster level on high as Yoda suggests)

[Gavrushka]

Kralj -Would not be practical unfortunatelty no matter how desirable- firstly there will be over 100 games- the time zone restrictions would be compounded by negotiating with third player -Pity - but would never work.

Piracy has to be off because of bugs.

Pollution does not cause bugs, neither does pillaging so I see no reason to exclude them.

Wonders I think we agreed to leave ALien Life Victory in.

Comp scoring - everyone plays everyone - no other system can be considered.

I think Swissy if U played Yoda you would understand why you cannot play with Nukes.... I am aware of his strategy - you would be scratching your head considering blueprints for Sols when the Nukes came raining down - So Nukes must be excluded- Otherwise I might as well say stuff the comp and send money to Yoda.

Someone tell me where I should shove the advances file to make map work - which is the 'default directory' that was mentioned?

[J Bytheway]

As to the referee - I don't think it's a good idea (would slow the league down because you'd have to organise a time when three people are free, not just two) but has anyone tried playing as the scots? They have no units but are not dead... Could be interesting - I believe there's a cheat accessible through the chat box that reveals the map but I don't know whether this does so for all players or just the one.

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Gavrushka
Someone tell me where I should shove the advances file to make map work - which is the 'default directory' that was mentioned?

...\scenarios\comp2\default\gamedata\