Ctp Competition Rule Discussion..

[Gavrushka]

We have a week to formalise the rules. The thread for the competition itself is here .

We know that cheating is not allowed

But everything else is still in the air.

Solvers decision will be final as regards the final rules, but we can discuss them first.

Pollution? The Consensus seems to be on
Wonders- most people that expressed an opinion seemed to think either no wonders or take the game breakers out.... ALTERNATIVELY could we allow the players of each game to decide?

The map? Is everyone happy with it??

[Solver]

Yes! Post the rule suggestions here.

The main question, IMO, is about the wonders - are we leaving them on, or not, or some?

As for pollution, I have already decided, and most will agree that it should be on. Unless something really out of order happens, I think we'll have it remain so.

The map - I am happy with it, bet the others are, too.

[J Bytheway]

A thought as to wonders:

If you choose on a game-by-game basis it will be unfair to whoever chooses first, since they are bound to pick London Exchange, etc. and then the second chooser can eliminate those which are useful against his tactics.

You could of course have both players send their choices to a third party, but that slows things down.

An alternative is this: Each player chooses before the competition the 4 (or 5 or whatever) wonders which they want excluded in all their games. That way everything is set beforehand, and it might do more to make the games varied too, sinceight be a couple of games where the London Exchange is not excluded because both players thought it was OK to play with.

[Patryn]

I think that if we exclude some, we should exclude all. Wonders are too one sided. It is part of the game, and yet, for the league, to keep an even possibility between the sides,(and an objective game) having wonders would screw with that. I have not seen the map yet, but it is exactly the same? If so, then the main deciding factor for those first few wonders is who starts on them first. Later, as the cities growth makes differences between size and production, that will not matter. But, for those first few turns, if the host really wants the wonder, then he will get it. It can only be had by one person, so I say no. Wonders is only a small strategy that we can probably do without, for the sake of the better ones that it would undermine.

[Patryn]

No problem about not being able to get on. When would you like to continue? I graduate highschool next friday( ) so for the two weeks until I head for basic training, I can play 24/7 League games and any regular games. But then of course, I will be out of the loop for 6 weeks while I experience hell. After that I will be able to play all I need to. So, when do you want to continue? I have all day today.

[Pin]

Patryn: i get around 120 kb/s

i have an xp2000+ cpu so i really hope it aint that which is stalling the downloads


about the rules:

i say pollution on
wonders: take away the most game breakers (but its a part of the game and shouldnt be completely excluded)

map: dunno as i havent seen it yet bcz i dont have gotten an iso yet

[yoda]

Re: Ctp Competition Rule Discussion..

Originally posted by Gavrushka
We have a week to formalise the rules. The thread for the competition itself is here .

We know that cheating is not allowed

But everything else is still in the air.

Solvers decision will be final as regards the final rules, but we can discuss them first.

Pollution? The Consensus seems to be on
Wonders- most people that expressed an opinion seemed to think either no wonders or take the game breakers out.... ALTERNATIVELY could we allow the players of each game to decide?

The map? Is everyone happy with it??

Been a while for me so I've missed what has been happening with this tourney. What are the settings for the map? Size, land/ocean, goods, barbarians? When can we get a copy to test/review? How are you going to keep people from using the rush buy/rush PW tricks?

For rules, are we playing "anything goes"? Piracy/pillaging, etc...? For wonders, is it possible to use a vote by the players? If so, I vote for NO wonders at all except for gaia theory, worm hole and nanite defuser. For pollution, it should not be an issue. However, for any of the players that have made it past nukes in a MP game, the pollution problem becomes HUGE. Almost a game stopper. I have found it's best just to leave pollution out to help eliminate more of the luck factor. And, if it is turned off, you don't need to have the Gaia theory wonder.

How many settlers/gold for starting? I also vote for no barbarians as once again, they introduce more luck than skill into the game. You get barbarians, you get slaves... while the other person may not. With the preset map, will all ruins be removed? (hope so)

When will the tourney be starting? How long will we have to play our games? What is the format? I'm sure I'll have another 100 questions, but hopefully this will be a good start. Thanks again for putting this on.

Yoda

[yoda]

game rules

Oh yes, one more thing. Has anyone given some thoughts to house rules? Things like making a rule that SOL's can't bombard cities. Also, nukes can attack cities directly. These two rules in particular make for a much better game. SOL's are far too powerful in CTP which they solved in CTP2 (too bad it wasn't a better game). 2 or 3 nukes will completely wipe out any city no matter how large it is. Is this really the desired result?

yoda

[yoda]

game map

Ok, I went through the previous thread's posts and found the map. Exactly how do I go about using/viewing it? I should know, but since I've never used the map editor or run any scenarios...

Thanks.

[Catete]

These are my votes:
Pollution ON.
Wonders OFF.

Bug is in piracy, so my vote is no piracy.

I don't agree with Yoda about Sols. Some players play with that rule (Sols can't bombard cities), so they can expend their turns in building infraestructure and buildings without a serious danger from your enemy till the game is very advanced. I think this is not correct. You need to be scared of your enemy (he can be building a lot of sols) so you have to know where to build units and where you can waste some turns in other things. So my vote is Sols CAN bombard cities. This competition is to see who wins, not to play a very advanced game.

About wonders, I have seen some players want to play with them, so I purpose if we are going to play 2 games against each player that host decide if we play with or without, but giving the no-host the chance to exclude the most important of them which should be debated here.
Same with other settings like settlers and gold. For example settlers 3-7, gold 500-5000. So if I am host I can decide 5 settlers, 3000 gold and wonders on.

[Gavrushka]

I like it - Catete your suggestions are ingenious- they become an 'Average' of the two players Strategy in EVERY game, - and yeh Point taken on no bombarding - it suits player who plays a longer game...

I think Solver that the rules should be in ranges.... like Start settlers 3 - 7 , gold 500 - 5000 . Each Player may select up to three units three wonders that are excluded- Or agree to exclude all wonders..

Piracy should be off yes, as it is so full of bugs.

Very very good post Catete... Now when can I kick your backside in game?

[J Bytheway]

Regarding the map:

If you want to see the version I posted before you should unzip it into ...\scenarios\Competition\ (IIRC... if that disagrees with what I posted before, then follow the other instructions) and then start up a single player (or hotseat) game, hitting select scenario.

I seem to recall that you originally wanted a version which was a descenarioified single player saved game. I have produced one of these via the /exportmap and /importmap commands, but in the process some of the goods got transmogrified (poppies into tobacco, etc.) If you still want this version then I'll sort it all out again, but if not then I won't waste my time.

So, do you want a SP saved game version?

[Solver]

As for Piracy, I thought we have already decided - my decision is OFF - it's very powerful, and quite buggy.

As for Wonder, I will then give in to the demand, let's turn them off (especially taking in account the map). However, Wormhole MUST be left on (to have Alien victory), but then no Nanite Defuser and Gaia - if it's off, then it's off. How is this?

SOLS - I think let play as everyone wants with them.

How are you going to keep people from using the rush buy/rush PW tricks?

Partially, moderation. But sure it's hard to know... we will largely HAVE to rely on the players' word... I hope that all the participiants here are fair and mature.

[Catete]

Originally posted by Gavrushka

Very very good post Catete... Now when can I kick your backside in game?

NEVER ... but you can try it anyway today about 18'00 my time...

[yoda]

Originally posted by Gavrushka

I think Solver that the rules should be in ranges.... like Start settlers 3 - 7 , gold 500 - 5000 . Each Player may select up to three units three wonders that are excluded- Or agree to exclude all wonders..

I don't have a problem with playing with SOL's bombarding. It was just a suggestions. However, Gav has brought up another point and that being "three units for exclusion". Why? I thought you said you were trying to find the best CTP player, not the best under certain senarios?

I do like the idea of "host gets choice" but with the modifications that certain exclusions can be requested by the non-host.

Finally, the map. And that's a big one. I can see how much work that has gone into making that map for this tourney and I would like to thank the maker... However, and please don't take this personally, I think the map is seriously flawed. Having "land bridges" and starting so close is designed specifically for a short, violent game. Is that the intent? Don't let people develop but throw them into conflict imediately? Reminds me of playing on "small" maps.

I am willing to put some time into creating an alternative map if the creator wouldn't mind a second map for the group to vote on. What I think would make a good map would be two large land masses at either pole (north/south on an earth world) as the starting positions. 4 to 6 islands in the middle. Goods would be about what you have except key monopoly completions would be on the islands in the middle. That way the player could try for a long game or make plans for an early invasion giving the variation to the game length and strategy.

Should I start editing an alternative map?