Team Sarantium Diplomacy

[inamirrordarkly]

I wasn't suggesting that.

[Kloreep]

Sorry I didn't respond earlier. Didn't mean to suggest that, just rambling on about how I wasn't sure how to approach them. I suppose pretty much asking them straght up as you were saying is pretty much the only way.

Anyhow, any more word UnO?

[polarnomad]

Has anyone thanked Sarantium for the recent intel?

[UnOrthOdOx]

I thanked them for the original intel, yes, and offered up what little we could add at the time. The barb one, I've heard about, I honestly didn't see.

I emailed con and ET about the border deal a week ago. I chatted with con about it on Monday (in Guild Wars where we are both in the same guild)

I sent them the map before the holidays and we haven't heard from them at all on it yet.

I am concerned they have a settler enroute somewhere and want to plunk it down before making a border deal. And the pony site is just as viable for them as anyone...

[polarnomad]

Incidentally, I had a dream that Sarantium snuck a settler to our designated fourth city site, and plunked down a city of their own before we could get around to it... By fourth city site I mean the plains/hill region to the east of FS, near the fish and pigs.

[inamirrordarkly]

Your clairvoyance is almost creepy PN.

[polarnomad]

[UnOrthOdOx]

E_T says:
Oh, their Settler is now where we think they are going to Settle in the south, by those other Horses
E_T says:
On that one hill, across the water
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
And what exactly is your settler doing?
E_T says:
We were hoping that that Barb could be used to take it out, but unfortunately, it got wounded on your Scout
E_T says:
I beleave that we are getting a message together to send to you about that
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
I KNOW we're putting one together. Be interesting which version you get.
E_T says:
although, Beta just got back online a couple of days ago (he's now about 12 miles away from me)
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
I am not pleased with having proposed a border before christmas being ignored and then seeing that...
E_T says:
I didn't think that you would, but from what I know, there was talk only of the Fishes on the Coast (which, From what I've read, is going to be given to you)
E_T says:
That and helping to secure that site from the Horde (as we didn't know where their settler was until last turn)
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Riiiiight. We've claimed all along foxtrot would be resettled. Not my fault if con didn't relay that.
E_T says:
And our desire it to be able to work with you all (now and in the future)
E_T says:
Con doesn't post half of what he's supposed to post
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
We settled thos ponies first, and have fought and died for them already. And, the response so far has been very poor to this action by you folks.
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Comes off as you purposely delayed responding to the border negotiation.

[UnOrthOdOx]

E_T says:
Hey, we have just built our first Chariot just recently. And as we will have writing soon, there was talk about geting an OB and gifting it to you, if that was what you desired). Otherwise, we are still building up
E_T says:
Beta has been gone for almost 2 weeks, Same with Aidun and Con has been semi gone, too
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
And you, I included you in an email on the subject...
E_T says:
they are the main diplo people. Flamer & I mostly just play the saves.
E_T says:
Looking, when was it sent?
E_T says:
Fron you personally?
E_T says:
because all I see in my inbox is Arrakis over the last 6 months
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
You already have a source of ponies. We have already settled, fought, bled, and died over these ones. Do not expect us to sit by and watch them taken.
E_T says:
we have every intention of giving them to you, especially with the river between us to allow the trade to go through
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
Any tile that has been in the borders of Team Merc, WILL be returned to Team Merc. We understand you were not the cause of removing them from our territory temporarily. Do not attempt to remove them permanently.
E_T says:
But you had beat us there first and we were going to be going somewhere else. But then, events took a different course
E_T says:
and now, we are getting into places that I'm not the person to be talking to, as I really suck at diplomatic talking
E_T says:
Never wanted that kind of think, never will
SirUlias@AOL.com says:
If that is your stance, so be it.

[Kloreep]

Sent UnO's message to teamsarantium@gmail.com, SUBJ: Sarantium Settler

Dear Sarantium,

From our first meeting, Team Mercenary has strived for a mutually profitable relationship with Team Sarantium.

From your first cries of distress we have strived to find some means of assisting you with your problems while maintaining our neutral stance.

From this first attempted agreement, where we offered to scout for you sources of copper, we have found ourselves in a position of awaiting your response, and only receiving said response after it is deemed to be at the most profitable to Team Sarantium, and the most detrimental to Team Mercenary. Through either wasted turns by our scout, or this recent affront to our border.

We have made every effort to open negotiations with you on the matter of a border agreement. And, we have been met with silence. This seems to be modus operandi for Team Sarantium for now we see your silence has not been mere sloth or laziness as has been proffessed, but rather a calculated attempt to plant a city prior to negotiating borders. A silence that speaks far louder than anything you could say that you know perfectly well this land is rightfully the property of Team Mercenary, otherwise you would have simply opened negotiations over it.

Since you have ingored our attempts at open dialog, allow us to now be perfectly clear. Team Mercenary was first to settle in the area with the founding of Foxtrot. We claim first right to the area of it's fat cross as Mercenary Territory. Team Mercenary has paid for this land in blood, and will not stand for it's defilement by the hands of invaders, nor by the hands of greedy onlookers. Any further encroachment by your settler will be seen as an act of war. Any settling in a manner which would include these tiles in the fat cross of a Sarantium city without prior written approval will be seen as an act of war.

Withdraw your settler and begin border negotiations in good faith that we may build a proper business relationship. Silence and deceipt do not business partners make.

Team Mercenary

[polarnomad]

[OzzyKP]

Their response:

UnO and Team Merc:

I would like to say thank you for your recent message, but its accusatory tone is unsettling, and in our opinion, an over-reaction to the situation at hand. To help with with a mutual understanding - as you have made your position very clear - I would like to make some things clear from our end:

1) We want to have as long and profitable relationship with the Mercs as possible. This is a fact!

2) We want that relationship to be on as close to an equal basis as possible.

3) Team Mercenary settled Foxtrot without working with us on a prior border agreement. This site was also our number one priority for the next settlement.

4) Con does not have any recollection of UnO telling him that he would consider us getting those horses an act of war. Thus as we have not broken any pacts or contracts and we have not attacked your civ, you DON'T have a casus belli to start a war agaist us if we settle near the horses! You have said that you will be neutral as long as no contracts are broken or you are not attacked.

5) You know what our terrain looks like, so you will understand why that spot makes good sense for Sarantium. If anything, your border "demands" and settling of Foxtrot could be construed as a long term threat to us.

6) You may claim that you were the first to settle there (and we fully appreciate the loss and cost to the Mercs of recent events), but that is no different than us saying it is not settled now, and we are the first there now. Both are equally valid or invalid, depending on how you want to look at it.

7) We negotiated in good faith on our tech agreement, knowing that it would delay us from settling further south, as a result of the delay in getting IW and the inability to clear jungle.

8) There may be two horse resources in the north, but there are also two copper resources, both of which you have. Our intent with the new site was to provide you with horses, in much the same way as you will be providing us with copper.

9) You mentioned that we have not helped you (enough?) in your war effort. That is not true. We have provided you with vital information about the Horde's movements and their military strength. This all has happened very fast and we haven't had time to react accordingly. We WILL be able to assist you on the military front soon, if the plans are not delayed by re-thinking and re-locating of our next city.

Regarding the issue of silence from our end, the idea that it was 'scheming' on our part is utter nonsense. I understand in the early days you were confronted by silence from our team, but those were different times and different personalities, one who has unfortunately left our team. I was making every effort to stay in touch and avoid any misunderstandings. I was gone from the 16th of December to just recently. Con was away, as was Aidun. You can call our silence sloth or laziness if you want, but it certainly wasn't 'scheming'. I will formally apologize for our lack of communication in these matters. The team should have had sufficient coverage., and should have gotten back to you regarding both your proposal for the northern border, as well our intentions regarding the site under discussion. Our bad.

So, to move on from here, we are proposing a border arrangement for your consideration. It expands well beyond the border for the northern coast. It is an arrangement which we see as being fair and equitable in the long run. If we settle at the horses, you will get considerable better deal when dividing the Hordian lands.

We would settle on the tile that the settler currently occupies and we hope we can come to mutually satisfactory conclusion on this matter.

Beta
Imperial democracy of Sarantium

[OzzyKP]

Personally I think Sarantium is worth more to us as friends then as enemies. They have offered us the horse in exchange for copper (which I believe we already offered them). I agree that it wouldn't be a long term, secure option for us however.

I do think though that we should make maximum use out of our creative trait (since you guys all wanted it and we're now stuck with it) and settle in such a way (like 2 of the lake) so as to contest the horse culturally. Ideally we'd then keep our peace and tech deals with Sarantium and end up with the horse anyhow.

Plus it would mean we wouldn't have to resort to loopholes or strained explanations to maintain our promise not to fight a war for territory (which I believe this would be, or at least would be seen that way by others).

The alternative is making enemies out of both teams on our island. Right now we can fight them both off, but who knows about the future. Losing our tech trade agreement would also be a blow to our advancement.

We should of course, through negotiation, try to stop Sarantium from building that city and get them to move their settler further east, but if that fails I do not support war (assuming they keep their word and settle right where they are currently). Or perhaps we can secure some additional concessions from them to allow them to settle where they are without war.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Is that an offer to remove the Horde?

We have let them know we are seeking reparations, not neccessarily removing the Horde. They seem to assume the latter.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Con does not have any recollection of UnO telling him that he would consider us getting those horses an act of war. Thus as we have not broken any pacts or contracts and we have not attacked your civ, you DON'T have a casus belli to start a war agaist us if we settle near the horses!

Well, the horses were not discussed as we had Foxtrot at the time. And we sent the border deal and haven't heard back about it since.

they consequently admit we have some claim to the land later in the letter.

You may claim that you were the first to settle there (and we fully appreciate the loss and cost to the Mercs of recent events), but that is no different than us saying it is not settled now, and we are the first there now. Both are equally valid or invalid, depending on how you want to look at it.